How would you handle this Green Blue issue? - Page 3




 
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How would you handle this Green Blue issue?
 
September 28th, 2012  
zhaldev
 
 
How would you handle this Green Blue issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
@ senojekips and I3BrigPvSk

I think you miss the point. What you are saying happens in the west too. Although not on a tribal basis but on a village level or neighborhood level and surely not as violent. All over the world people flock together in groups and defend their group against others.

The Bin Laden files clearly shows that the Taliban are not a collection of loosely knit 'tribals' with a common goal. They were created in Pakistan and ruled most of Afghanistan until they were ousted. They want their power back and when Nato leaves and the Afghans are not up to their task they will reign again, as will islamic fundumentalism.

The problem of the conflict lies in Pakistan. You cannot dry out a flooded room without turning off the taps. Problem is, Pakistan is a nuclear power. And that alone is enough to keep everyone out.

a question put forward by a student from Balochistan studying at Quad-e-Azam University, Islamabad, to a senior member of the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad was : "If [the] United States claims to be a humanitarian power set out to free the people from tyranny, then why does it refrain [from intervening] in Baluchistan?"
(The quiet rise of the Quetta Shura)
well said...first take care of pakistan then all problems will be solved...the talibs, Lashkar a taeba (Let),Jais e Mohammad all are creation of pakis and are ably supported by large influential section in pakistan i.e ISI.It was the Pak govt that supported taliban in overthrowing the then Afghan govt in 1996, it is Pak where you found OBL,it is where haqqani network operates.It is where L-e-t,jais like groups operate and kill innocents in Kashmir.
September 28th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zhaldev
well said...first take care of pakistan then all problems will be solved..
Is India going to do it?
September 28th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
For a start, Bin Laden was the figurehead of AlQuaeda not the Taliban, and as I said in my last post he was only an appeaser, not a ruler, he was no more than a figurehead created mainly by the western Press. Had he have tried to "rule" the Taliban, the instant he tried to over rule any group or individual they would have at worst turned on him, or at best ignored him.

The Taliban will only be allied with Pakistan so long as it is in their interest.
For a start, read the Bin Laden files or here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Is India going to do it?
remeber my post about the power of a nuclear weapon without firing one? That's why they (India, US, Nato) don't act on Pakistan.
Remember, those guys go even nuts from a cartoon or movie they don't like.
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How would you handle this Green Blue issue?
September 28th, 2012  
Elsarof
 
 
Any one knows the difference between Taliban and Al-qida? , i bet 99% don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Is India going to do it?
India can't do it .
September 29th, 2012  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
@ senojekips and I3BrigPvSk

I think you miss the point. What you are saying happens in the west too. Although not on a tribal basis but on a village level or neighborhood level and surely not as violent. All over the world people flock together in groups and defend their group against others.

The Bin Laden files clearly shows that the Taliban are not a collection of loosely knit 'tribals' with a common goal. They were created in Pakistan and ruled most of Afghanistan until they were ousted. They want their power back and when Nato leaves and the Afghans are not up to their task they will reign again, as will islamic fundumentalism.

The problem of the conflict lies in Pakistan. You cannot dry out a flooded room without turning off the taps. Problem is, Pakistan is a nuclear power. And that alone is enough to keep everyone out.

a question put forward by a student from Balochistan studying at Quad-e-Azam University, Islamabad, to a senior member of the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad was : "If [the] United States claims to be a humanitarian power set out to free the people from tyranny, then why does it refrain [from intervening] in Baluchistan?"
(The quiet rise of the Quetta Shura)
It rather happened in the West a long time ago. These clans, tribes, and extended families are related to each other by blood or by marriage. In the US and Canada, religious groups can settle together. These clans and tribes are more like the aboriginal tribes in the US and Canada. I don't know if there are different tribes and clans in the aboriginal societies in Australia and New Zealand.
September 29th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
For a start, read the Bin Laden files or here.
I say again, Bin laden was NOT the leader of the Taliban, and has never been recognised as such by anyone, below is a list of the acknowledged past and present Taliban leaders both dead and alive. Bin Ladin is not mentioned.
Quote:
NamePosition Situation
Mullah John Smith First Deputy Council of Ministers Abdul Rahman Zahed Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
  • Allegedly created an impression that he entered Pakistan after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan, but had returned before the end of 2001 to his home village in Loghar province;[2]
  • at large
Reported to be a leader in the Taliban's Quetta Shura.[1] Reported captured in late February 2010.[1]
Mullah Ubaidullah Akhund Minister of Defense
  • Captured by Pakistani forces, late Feb. 2007 [3] Died of heart disease in a Pakistan prison in 2010[4][5]
Mullah Abdul Razaq Commerce Minister
  • Afghan forces captured Razaq while scouring a rugged mountainous region north of Kandahar, April 1, 2003.[6] Razaq's son, Abdul, had been killed on September 5, 2002 as he tried to shoot President Hamid Karzai.[citation needed] Abdul Razaq testified he had merely started out as a civilian, conscripted into Afghanistan's civil service by the Pakistan[clarification needed] who was promoted to Commerce Minister, without ever becoming a member of the Taliban.[7] He testified he had taken advantage of an amnesty Karzai offered when the Taliban fell, and had not been involved in politics since the fall of the Taliban.
Mullah Khaksar Akhund Deputy Minister of Interior Affairs
  • Staged a public press conference in Kabul, late November, 2001 and denounced the Taliban; by August 2002, he supports the U.S.-backed Afghan government of Hamid Karzai;[8] at large
Qari Ahmadullah Minister of Security (Intelligence)
  • Killed in late December 2001 by a United States bombing raid in the Paktia province [9]
Mullah Nooruddin Turabi Minister of Justice
  • Allegedly sheltered in Quetta by Pakistani officials by the end of 2001;[2] captured by United States forces and then set free and given general amnesty in early January 2002 [10][11]
Amir Khan Muttaqi Minister of Culture & Information
  • Allegedly moved to Peshawar, Pakistan before the end of 2001 and still "hiding out in the Pakistani frontier" March 19, 2002;[2][12]
  • still at large
Mullah Ghausuddin
Mullah Abbas Akhund Minister of Health
  • In February 2002, he was "hiding with his military force about 5 miles from Uruzgan village";[14]
  • at large
Mawlawi Abdul Raqib First Deputy Council of Ministers
  • Unknown (is he the same Abdul Raqib as the official from the agriculture department in 2003? [1])
Mullah Omar Spiritual leader
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
remeber my post about the power of a nuclear weapon without firing one? That's why they (India, US, Nato) don't act on Pakistan.
Remember, those guys go even nuts from a cartoon or movie they don't like.
You should try to teach your Grandmother to suck eggs, I wasn't asking you,.... I wanted Zhaldev to elaborate.
September 29th, 2012  
LeEnfield
 
 
What a lot of you is forgetting is that Pakistan is a nuclear power and has the bomb which then changes the game plan
September 29th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
I say again, Bin laden was NOT the leader of the Taliban, and has never been recognised as such by anyone, below is a list of the acknowledged past and present Taliban leaders both dead and alive. Bin Ladin is not mentioned.
You should try to teach your Grandmother to suck eggs, I wasn't asking you,.... I wanted Zhaldev to elaborate.
Read the files! I never said that Bin laden was the head of the Taliban. What I did was disprove your picture that the Taliban was a collection of loosely knit 'tribals' with a common goal. They were not!
September 30th, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by VDKMS
Read the files! I never said that Bin laden was the head of the Taliban. What I did was disprove your picture that the Taliban was a collection of loosely knit 'tribals' with a common goal. They were not!
You really can't see the forest for the trees can you?

In a country where family and tribal affiliations control absolutely every aspect of life, from day to day interpersonal relationships right through to the sitting Government, you expect us to believe that the Taliban fighters, who are for the most part illiterate and superstitious tribals from the poorest and most backward rural areas are a tightly knit and highly integrated organisation? They have fought among themselves for centuries, only coming together where there is a greater common interest, and the instant that problem is dealt with, they will move to the next problem and form new alliances as are necessary to deal with it, eventually they will revert to inter family and inter tribal feuding again.

Motivation, not integration is their binding force.
September 30th, 2012  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
You really can't see the forest for the trees can you?

In a country where family and tribal affiliations control absolutely every aspect of life, from day to day interpersonal relationships right through to the sitting Government, you expect us to believe that the Taliban fighters, who are for the most part illiterate and superstitious tribals from the poorest and most backward rural areas are a tightly knit and highly integrated organisation? They have fought among themselves for centuries, only coming together where there is a greater common interest, and the instant that problem is dealt with, they will move to the next problem and form new alliances as are necessary to deal with it, eventually they will revert to inter family and inter tribal feuding again.

Motivation, not integration is their binding force.
When are you going to do some research yourself instead of looking for confirmations of your own mind?

Read this.

But I'll quote some : "The Taliban, in contrast, were extremely well organized, well-financed and exhibited strong discipline."

And everything you told above is subordinate to Taliban rule. They have done that before , you know.
 


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