will still be well above average for a very long time.

That's for sure.

Europe is and will stay as a wonderfull place to live in, but in comparative sense it is in "decline", and that hurts a lot.

The Colonial Period saw European arrogance at its peak. I'd rather not see that again. I think Europe will ultimately be better off for not have such an inflated view of their own importance to the world.

Also, its a pattern for what will likely happen to the United States to a much lesser degree -- the contrast between ... lets say France, and the United States would be a good example of similarities and differences. The United States has the natural resources, land and population to remain one of the top nations indefinitely, but it is very possible to for a certain few nations to surpass the USA. France has no possible means of regaining its former status as the most powerful nation in the World as it once was. They haven't the population, resources or land mass to pull it off ... short of something drastic happening (France being the sole nation not being affected by a world-wide catastrophe like a Supervolcano erruption or Nuclear Holocaust, etc).

When Europe is able to get rid of the political liberal left and come back to a more conservative system of values, recovery will follow.

The liberal left has gutted your armed forces and relies too heavily on the U.N. for protection of soverenty. Wrong approach for a strong country. Your populations have been taxed to death in favor of social programs(socialism) which does not work.

2 world wars helped a lot too...towards the decline...

Europe needs a revolution to overcome it's current problem (decline).

But "democracy" will stop this "revolution" happening, then Europe is basically a lost case.

Which revolution would that be?
Red perhaps?

I live in Europe, Germany, for many years now. I see no decline. Sure, the economy might be a bit slow at the moment, but things like that happen to economies. And the European economy IS strong. Its just growing slowly at present. Europe is undergoing a lot of structural changes. Who can blame em? Germany in particular has to build up East Germany. For those that do not remember. It has only been a few years since they reunited with what had become a communist economy pit. It's a big challenge. All of Europe is...

For its current problems, some blame the social approach. I praise it. Its merrits are apparent. Social justice, for one. Personal freedom. You don't see poverty here like you find it in the US. You don't see people without teeth. General health care. High living standards. Very low crime. Accessible education to everyone. Decline? Where?

*leans out of his window, looks left, looks right*

Don't see it. Lovin' it...

God save Europe!

Originally Posted by Bratwurst

I live in Europe, Germany, for many years now. I see no decline. Sure, the economy might be a bit slow at the moment, but things like that happen to economies. And the European economy IS strong. Its just growing slowly at present. Europe is undergoing a lot of structural changes. Who can blame em? Germany in particular has to build up East Germany. For those that do not remember. It has only been a few years since they reunited with what had become a communist economy pit. It's a big challenge. All of Europe is...

For its current problems, some blame the social approach. I praise it. Its merrits are apparent. Social justice, for one. Personal freedom. You don't see poverty here like you find it in the US. You don't see people without teeth. General health care. High living standards. Very low crime. Accessible education to everyone. Decline? Where?

*leans out of his window, looks left, looks right*

Don't see it. Lovin' it...

God save Europe!

Heheh, we need to get Doc. to respond to that one.

Originally Posted by CMA2

When Europe is able to get rid of the political liberal left and come back to a more conservative system of values, recovery will follow.

The liberal left has gutted your armed forces and relies too heavily on the U.N. for protection of soverenty. Wrong approach for a strong country. Your populations have been taxed to death in favor of social programs(socialism) which does not work.

You can't just lump every country in Europe in the same category. We in the UK are doing quite well except our leader is a bit too much inclined to side with the US all the time for my liking. The UK economy is doing very well at the moment. Look at that tiny country off the coast of Europe that also happens to be the 4th strongest economy in the world. Not bad for a population of just £60m.

Europe does have some issues to face and I think you'll see some real changes in the next 10 years.

Europe does have some issues to face and I think you'll see some real changes in the next 10 years.

Yup, as soon as the Brits stop hating Germans, accept the Euro and forget the Empire, we're en route!

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

You can't just lump every country in Europe in the same category. We in the UK are doing quite well except our leader is a bit too much inclined to side with the US all the time for my liking. The UK economy is doing very well at the moment. Look at that tiny country off the coast of Europe that also happens to be the 4th strongest economy in the world. Not bad for a population of just £60m.

Europe does have some issues to face and I think you'll see some real changes in the next 10 years.

You're leader rocks the house!

I often travel to different European countries, and I must say I wish my country was as declining as Holland, Sweden, Germany or France.

There is more to life than economic growth, especially when it is at the expense of environment and social cohesion, and only serves to funnel money to the already-rich.

That's not to say the Europeans couldn't organise their defence affairs better. Air superiority fighters, nuclear submarines and heavy tanks (combined with ability to mass-mobilise the citizenry) may seem like relics of the past, but the world is not as different a place as people like to suppose.