hi all, Shalom - Page 2




 
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June 6th, 2013  
fuggazza
 
of course i have seen this before, and for the most part i agree with what he says but again only half a picture painted there yet again!! as for red cross officials there are also plenty of great reports too, and just so we are clear i am not pro Israeli nor am i anti , so i am well aware of mistakes and foul play made before by the IDF as well as other so called great armies, UK USA etc, BUT i have seen on the most part good as well as seeing bad and good on from the Arab world and so it goes on from all sides, but i respect your views as i would anyone else's i just don't entirely agree with them
June 6th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuggazza
of course i understand that and believe me i've seen more than my fair share of jewish extremism as well and i hate those guys a much as i hate any extremism that targets innocent people i've also seen Palestinian attacks against innocent civilians including beheadings of small children as young as two, of course you don't see that in the media either so there's always two sides to every story, and for the record i am not pro Israeli nor am i Anti but i judge on what i have seen, and it's a true saying if the Arabs drooped their arms there would be peace in the middle east, if the Israeli's dropped their arms there would be no more Israel, and yes they have had over two hundred sanctions against them by the UN funny how china had none? funny how the rest of the so called concerned arab world offered no relocation to the palestinian refugees , funny when Kuwait kicked out 300,000 of them that no one hardly whispered a word, so the Un are full of sh.t and a worthless organisation , that's my opinion and i've seen more than my fair share, funny how such a small piece of land is supposedly the problem!!!!!
Why on earth should the Palestinians lay down their arms, they are entitled to defend THEIR country, and even more stupidly why should other countries offer the Palestinians to relocate? They don't want to relocate, they want to stay in THEIR country. Relocate the Israelis, they came from elsewhere to Palestine.

When the Germans occupied France, no one said, let's relocate the French and let the Germans have the place.

If I stole all your land and possessions and murdered any members of your family who resisted, what would you do?

The piece of land is not the problem, but the illegal occupiers are.
June 7th, 2013  
fuggazza
 
well if you believe that Arab invented lie it can actually be proven there was never a palestinian state , culture or religion it's Arab, i even have Palestinian friends that agree to that, that land was once called Israel, for a reason! a fact well known just not broadcasted well enough was that in AD130 sixty years after the Roman armies tore down Herods temple the Romans rebuilt Jerusalem as a pagan city and replaced the old temple with a temple to Jupiter and the Jews were revoked into rebelling however the rebellion was crushed by the wrath of the roman empire half a million Jews were slaughtered and thousands more sold into slavery and after the rebellion had been totally crushed the Romans in anger and in punishment for the Jews renamed the land as Syria-Palestina, and from that time forth Jews that were living there were known or should i say mockingly known as Palestinians, In the second world war the British forces had a Palestinian Brigade made up entirely of Jewish volunteers, the Palestine post was a Jewish newspaper, the Palestine symphony orchestra again all Jewish members! the best thing the Arabs done was to invent the palestinian lie, so really you should check your facts more often! or be like the rest of the sheep that just follow public opinion because what they don't understand scares them!
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June 7th, 2013  
RusCan2013
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuggazza
well if you believe that Arab invented lie it can actually be proven there was never a palestinian state , culture or religion it's Arab, i even have Palestinian friends that agree to that, that land was once called Israel, for a reason! a fact well known just not broadcasted well enough was that in AD130 sixty years after the Roman armies tore down Herods temple the Romans rebuilt Jerusalem as a pagan city and replaced the old temple with a temple to Jupiter and the Jews were revoked into rebelling however the rebellion was crushed by the wrath of the roman empire half a million Jews were slaughtered and thousands more sold into slavery and after the rebellion had been totally crushed the Romans in anger and in punishment for the Jews renamed the land as Syria-Palestina, and from that time forth Jews that were living there were known or should i say mockingly known as Palestinians, In the second world war the British forces had a Palestinian Brigade made up entirely of Jewish volunteers, the Palestine post was a Jewish newspaper, the Palestine symphony orchestra again all Jewish members! the best thing the Arabs done was to invent the palestinian lie, so really you should check your facts more often! or be like the rest of the sheep that just follow public opinion because what they don't understand scares them!
Yeah, so what if Palestinians are "Arabs". Iraqis are Arabs, so are Egyptians, Libyans, Tunisians, Algerians, Moroccans, Syrian, Lebanese, Jordanians, Saudis, Yemenis, Bahrainis, Emiratis. All those countries still exist, as countries. What's your point?
June 7th, 2013  
Hawkeye
 
The Palestine Post was founded in 1932. In 1911 an Arabic-language newspaper, Filasteen, was established in Jaffa by two Greek Orthodox Palestinian nephews - Isa Daoud Isa & Yusef al Isa. The newspaper was opposed to Zionist immigration and did advocate for Arab nationalism. Filasteen described its readers as "Palestinians".

There is virtually no historical trace of any ancient Israeli kingdom. No mention in the records of the the Egyptians,the Persians,the Greeks or the Armenians. No ruins. Compare what we have of the Greek and Roman civilizations; or the Persian Empire; compare our historical knowledge of even minor states such as the Kingdoms of Armenia,of Axum,and the Himyarite jewish kingdom.

Why are there records of these minor entities yet nothing of any "Israeli" kingdom in Palestine? The answer: if it had existed,others would have noted it. It would have been on the major trade routes. It would have been impossible to ignore. There would be ruins of once fabulous buildings of every kind. Instead we find nothing. All the excavations show the same thing: in Palestine the Hebrews were a small city-state based in what became known as Judea and it's inhabitants as Jews. They were never a majority and they did not engender any worthwhile semblance of a culture. And even these hill people were probably from Yemen which is probably their real point of origin; a northward migration into Palestine from Yemen would explain a great deal that is otherwise unexplainable, most obviously the conversion of large numbers of Ethiopians to Judaism.

Palestine had established borders throughout the Ottoman period and elected representatives to the Ottoman Parliament. To say because they existed as a province not a nation this means it was up for grabs is like saying the Jews of Boston can declare Massachusetts a Jewish State on grounds that It Was Never A Country In It's Own Right. You could say that of any province of any state of earth with rare exceptions like Texas or Bavaria.

All ancient maps show Palestine; they rarely bother to note tiny Judea,which Was Never A Country In It's Own Right;,just a Roman province and before that a Persian province and before that an Egyptian province...

The only evidence out there is the zionist colonial movement.

Scholars agree that the predominantly Muslim and Christian Arab population of Palestine before World War I did not consider themselves part of a distinctly Palestinian national group. There is evidence, however, that the people living in what is today Israel, Gaza and the West Bank had a regional identity. Until the thirteenth century, the Muslims referred to Judea, Sumaria and the adjacent coastal region (part of modern day Israel, the West Bank and Gaza) as Filastin

The Arab Mufti Khayr al-Din al-Ramli dating from the seventeenth century, on many occasions, “mentions the concepts Filastin, biladuna (our country), al-Sham (Syria), Misr (Egypt) and disyar (country). And his conclusion is that educated Palestinians, even in the seventeenth century, were in fact conscious of living in a territorial region called “Palestine” that was separate from, even if it constituted a part of, “greater Syria.”

Although Palestine was not its own administrative unit in the Ottoman state, the Turks proposed unifying Palestine into a single political province in 1830, 1840 and 1872, but feared the measure would assist European colonial interests. The boundaries envisaged where similar to those of the eventual British Mandate.

The history of the Palestinian people begins with the 1834 revolt against Egypt’s governor and occupier of most of Palestine, Ibrahim Pasha. This largely populist uprising brought together disparate and dispersed Bedouins, rural sheikhs, urban notables, mountain fellaheen and Jerusalem religious figures of Palestine against the invading forces of Ibrahim. Moreover, European penetration in the mid-nineteenth century, both its bureaucratic advances and demand for locally produced products, lies at the embryo of the Palestinian national identity.

Economic, religious and cultural practices further bound the Arabs of Palestine. Cities were often integrated with their adjacent hinterlands, such as Galilee farmers were to Nazareth. Local cultural practices, such as the Nabi Musa pilgrimage which enjoyed participation from Southern, Central and Northern Palestine, provided a sense of collective identification for the Muslims in the area. Additionally, the Christian and Muslim Arabs were likely cognizant of living in a unique region due to their religious scriptures.

Still, the Arab peoples of Palestine prior to World War I would not have considered themselves part of a Palestinian nation and therefore did not advocate for Palestinian self-determination. This would quickly change, however, beginning in the late 1910s.

During the First Palestinian Congress from January-February 1919, the delegation opted for unity with Syria. Most scholars agree, however, that this was an ephemeral political maneuver rather than the chief object of struggle for the Palestinians.

The first occasion on which the Palestinian Arabs demanded a national government was at the Third Palestinian Arab Congress convened in Haifa on 13 December 1920. Over a period of seven days and nine sessions, the delegates gathered from the cities of Haifa, Jerusalem, Lydda, Ramla, Tiberias, Safad, Nazareth, Acre, Jenin, Tulkarm, Nablus, and the organizations of the National Club Association of Christian Youth, the Association of Muslim Youth, a geographically diverse assembly.In the first session, the group agreed to three foundational principles: the establishment of a national government, the rejection of the idea of a Jewish National Home, and the organization of the Palestinian Arab nationalist movement. In a later session, they would demand “a national government responsible to a representative assembly, whose members would be chosen from the Arabic-speaking people who have been inhabiting Palestine until the outbreak of the War”

There would be a total of nine Palestinian Arab Congresses by 1929, all of which would support the idea of establishing an independent Palestinian state. During the Mandate period more than forty Arab political associations emerged, with a total membership of over 3,000. Internal disputes, however, would plague the efficacy of the Palestinian political agenda throughout the Mandate period, especially during the 1920s. Still, the community would demonstrate considerable unity.

In 1921, the newspaper Suriyya al-Janubiyya published an article by Hajj Amin al-Husayni, who would later become the Mufti of Jerusalem, which called for the Arabs to take a lesson from the people long dispersed and disliked, with no place to call their homeland, but who nevertheless decided to regain their glory after twenty centuries of exile, despair and oppression. While the article purports to address all Arabs, the author makes a number of comments indicating his target audience is Palestinians. For example, he writes, “you can see others with far less than yourselves trying to build their house on the ruins of yours”

Although al-Husayni does not explicitly mention the Jews or Zionists in the article, the references are undeniable. He is tacitly calling for the Arabs of Palestine to consider themselves in terms similar to their Jewish counterparts, as a nation that needs to establish political control in its homeland.An article written by Hajj Amin al-Husayni in January 1920 of the same newspaper expressed this feeling in classic nationalist rhetoric:

Palestine, oh stage of the Prophets and source of great men; Palestine oh sister of the gardens of paradise; Palestine, oh Ka’ba of hopes and sources of fulfillment; Palestine, oh beloved of millions of people; Palestine, oh lord of lands and pride or worshippers; Palestine, oh source of happiness and spring of purity; Palestine, my country and the country of my forefathers and ancestors; Palestine, only in you do I have pride, and only for you am I ashamed; Palestine, oh maiden of nations and desired of peoples; Palestine, my honor, my glory, my life, my pride.

Unbelievably how much facts you can find in the history books of a "people who have not existed"

So in your own words: you should check your facts more often!

Nations are dynamic constructs. As Kimmerling and Migdal note, “the making of a people is not a volcanic experience, coming out of a singular, critical moment…It is, rather, a long process, with all sorts of reversals and changes of direction, marked by continuing struggle against others, particularly powerful others, and internal struggles among contending groups”

Back to school my friend. All the facts are there if you go back in history and not just believe in the Zionist fairy tales.
June 7th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuggazza
well if you believe that Arab invented lie it can actually be proven there was never a palestinian state , culture or religion it's Arab,
Both you and I know that Palestine was known as Palestine in the fifth century BC and is recorded by Herodotus in history books from that era,... however Israel never came into being until 14 May 1948. There is no Israel culture or religion either, there is a Jewish culture and Israel's population is mainly Jewish but I fail to see what this has to do with the argument.

As for the Jewish claim to Palestine as promised to them by their God (no one else's) you really need to read the latest genealogical report by Eran Elhaik a Jewish researcher at the Johns Hopkins University. A DNA based study taken over 20 years which has finally published it's results showing that today's Ashkenazi Jews have virtually no connection whatsoever with the area known as Palestine. For the most part they are the descendants of Khazar apostates with a small amount of Mesopotamian and other blood. http://www.scribd.com/doc/123652605/...n-John-Hopkins

In view of this, it has been seriously suggested by a number of eminent genealogical scholars that all previous explanations be ignored as it is most likely that the research was done in reverse, first noting the conclusion they wanted, and then trying to find evidence to suit that conclusion.

This latest finding confirms what has been long suspected, along with other such damning facts, such as the fact that the legendary kingdom of King David has been grossly overstated, in size, influence and duration, being no more than one of many short term alliances formed by tribes in the area lasting no more than two generations. There is also the fact that in over 160 years of extensive archeological digging by German, English and Israeli teams, almost no archaeological evidence has been found, to support any notable Jewish "kingdom". Confirmation of this fact was admitted by the Israeli Department of foreign affairs and published in Ha'aretz in 2003, and there has been no further significant findings since.

It would seem that I and others, have a far better "understanding" of the truth than yourself who can't seem to get beyond spouting long disproved Zionist/Jewish propaganda.
June 8th, 2013  
fuggazza
 
my point is that land was once called Israel and before that it was actually known as Canaan , the Jewish settlers were given 18% of that land by UN treaty ever since then they have attacked by all angles,and the rest of the world watched and done nothing as the Arab world tried to wipe them out, this my friend is a religious war and always has been , sure Israel have made some pretty screwed up decisions and mistakes but for the most part have sought peace, peace that will never truly happen because of extremism on both sides, i find it quite sad really that the UN can issue all these sanctions against Israel yet funny enough have never issued one against china and very few against other countries where alot more serious crimes are taking place,yet the western world give one of the most successful terrorists Yasser Arafat a noble peace prize!!!! doesn't that strike you as odd? Jerusalem is a Jewish holy site and has been for thousands of years and it is never mentioned in the Quran once
June 8th, 2013  
fuggazza
 
well look we will agree to disagree as we could both argue this point to the end of time!! i will say one last thing and that is Jerusalem is a Jewish holy site and has been for thousands of years it has no claims for a holy site for Islam as it is never mentioned once in the Quran , any ways it has been a pleasure debating with you but we are going around in circles!
June 8th, 2013  
fuggazza
 
The Emergence of a Palestinian National Identity: A Theory-Driven Approach
By Zachary J. Foster,, it is what it is a theory and no actual real evidence to back it up, again we are better off to agree to disagree, i can qoute a visting mark twain who visited the holy lands in 1867 A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country. again it is only known as the holy lands in the Jewish and christian religion not in Islam yet they still lie about Jerusalem being a holy place for them!! that is total BS and again has proven to be
June 8th, 2013  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuggazza
my point is that land was once called Israel and before that it was actually known as Canaan ,
It has been called many things but none of them give todays Khazar Jews any right to steal the land and murder those who resist.

Even if this were not so, no one anywhere has any right of return to a country where they have not lived in for 1300 years. My ancestors lived in London among other places, I even know the addresses, but if I were to go there and throw the people out into the street and murder those who resisted, I would be killed or locked up in a mental institution.

Get used to it, Israel is a murderous and illegal state that would make the planners of Nuremberg laws blush with embarrassment.