A Version of Hero could be doing something serious for someone else and expecting nothing in return .

Originally Posted by MontyB

I have a question and it isn't meant in a derogatory way but what is it about dieing that makes you a hero?

Because these guys that I knew had nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I don´t expect you to understand, but had you been there you probably would.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Heroism is not necessarily an action that has to involve death and not all who die are hero's.

I agree.
To me a hero is a person who spontaneously transform compassion into action and as such you will find heroes in many professions. It´s my personal interpretation and ultimately, there´s probably no concrete definition of a hero. It´s up to each individual to define.

Originally Posted by Kesse81

Because these guys that I knew had nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I don´t expect you to understand, but had you been there you probably would.

I agree.
To me a hero is a person who spontaneously transform compassion into action and as such you will find heroes in many professions. It´s my personal interpretation and ultimately, there´s probably no concrete definition of a hero. It´s up to each individual to define.

Hehe I would really like to discuss this further but I am loathe to do so as I can not figure out how to do so without it coming across badly and that really isn't my intention so I will leave it there and say that I am not entirely certain I agree.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Hehe I would really like to discuss this further but I am loathe to do so as I can not figure out how to do so without it coming across badly and that really isn't my intention so I will leave it there and say that I am not entirely certain I agree.

So what is a hero then?

In my experience, most heroes in Kesse and I's profession don't make it back because somehow, someway, they always find themselves in the thick of it at the very crucial point where they are needed most. They keep going back over and over...regardless of whether or not their peers, the ones that all have mutual respect for them and ackowledge that not more is required of them, yet they keep going.

It might be a small thing to some people...but not to me.

Originally Posted by brinktk

So what is a hero then?

In my experience, most heroes in Kesse and I's profession don't make it back because somehow, someway, they always find themselves in the thick of it at the very crucial point where they are needed most. They keep going back over and over...regardless of whether or not their peers, the ones that all have mutual respect for them and ackowledge that not more is required of them, yet they keep going.

It might be a small thing to some people...but not to me.

Part of the problem here is that I feel this is an argument that will become more emotive than open minded which is what I am trying to avoid but I tend to think people especially in a military context confuse bravery with heroism, they are two different things.
Lets try a fireman analogy to break away from the military theme, a fireman putting out a fire knowing that the building may collapse is brave but not heroic, a fireman going in to a building knowing he has little chance of survival is heroic so from a military theme a soldier dieing in a fire fight may be brave but not necessarily heroic.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Part of the problem here is that I feel this is an argument that will become more emotive than open minded which is what I am trying to avoid but I tend to think people especially in a military context confuse bravery with heroism, they are two different things.
Lets try a fireman analogy to break away from the military theme, a fireman putting out a fire knowing that the building may collapse is brave but not heroic, a fireman going in to a building knowing he has little chance of survival is heroic so from a military theme a soldier dieing in a fire fight may be brave but not necessarily heroic.

I understand your argument.
Our terminology is probably a little different when one finds oneself in a chaos almost daily.
Some of these guys put their lives on the line, some deliberately others unknowingly, without being ordered to do so to save their mates from a dangerous situation.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Part of the problem here is that I feel this is an argument that will become more emotive than open minded which is what I am trying to avoid but I tend to think people especially in a military context confuse bravery with heroism, they are two different things.
Lets try a fireman analogy to break away from the military theme, a fireman putting out a fire knowing that the building may collapse is brave but not heroic, a fireman going in to a building knowing he has little chance of survival is heroic so from a military theme a soldier dieing in a fire fight may be brave but not necessarily heroic.

There is a distinction between your fireman analogy and a soldier in a firefight though. To a soldier, being in a firefight IS the building collapsing. Just because one is used to being in a firefight doesn't make it any less dangerous.

There certainly is a distinction between heroism and bravery and I understand that completely. That is why I tend to believe that most the heroes don't make it back. Consistent bravery every single day is heroic...but it is also patently hazardous to ones health...

I have seen guys die without ever knowing they were in danger.
Hardest part was the suffering many endured-nothing like any movie.

I have met and served with a number of men I would class as heroes.....If you take fireman into account as they might be in danger every time they attend a fire, then yes they are but so are many other public servants, and so are many other jobs, like miners construction workers. Still in these jobs there is only an odd chance of getting killed, but in a war you put your life on the line all time and often you are called serve in the military and do have a choice. Yet every one else does have that choice

Flying bodies in from the bush sometimes I would think I know but his parents don't yet know their son is dead and won't know until Graves Registration notifies them .