Hernán Cortes - Page 4




 
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April 27th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
I'd have to strongly disagree with the presumption that the people of Europe did not know how to intentionally spread deadly diseases. Sure, they didn't know why things worked the way they did, but catapulting disease infested corpses as well as dead lifestock, is an age-old practice going back to well before Spain was ever a nation. It would not be surprising if we were to find that the Spanish used such methods. I do not have any sources to offer to confirm or deny whether such methods were used by the Spanish Conquistadors. War Machine is quite correct, Europeans had used primative biological warfare.
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I do not think that doing that would have been very intelligent. Remember that Cortés had thousands of indian allies in his troops(ex, Cempoal);if he would have spread a disease, his allies would have died as well.
April 27th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes


You have to remember that the Catholic church(De las Casas,the monk), were the biggest defensor of indians. He strongly critized the way indians were treated.
I do not see any difference btw eating people because of the religion or due to being hungry... Actually, many people think thay had to practice canibalism due to nutritional reasons, so probably the religon was just the perfect excuse
One Monk does not the Catholic Church make. You need to remember that it was the Catholic Church that branded the Aztecs, Incas etc. Devil Worshipers. If the Natives converted and followed what the Church demanded then all was well and good those who choose to follow their former religion were subjected to the skills of clerics well schooled in the class of inquisition. This is the reason that many of the festivals and holy days as practiced in Latin America are much different than those practiced in the European Church. Native religion cloaked in Catholism.

Many cultures have practiced cannibalism in their history. Whether ritual of for survival. Do I agree with it ? Not for me to say, not my culture. However I believe your throwing it out as a " What Cortez did was okay because they were cannibals and needed to be converted." To me that doesn't wash.

Yes the Aztecs were brutal and had tendencies toward excessive violence and repugnant practices. But the Conquistadors were just as brutal and trying to gloss over that under the vail of religion and western morals does not do history justice.
April 27th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Which Archbishop was it that ordered all the records of the Maya burned? We may never know how much knowlegde was lost in a single stroke there.

While I agree that many of the cultural practices were detestable, we must be careful to not forget that the Maya especially were more advanced than Europe in many areas. It was much like China: never properly used. The complete erasing of a people's cultural identity -- which is what the Catholic Church was attempting -- is a very poor practice. There is no doubt at all that the Native Americans were much worse off for the Spaniards having conquered them, canabalism and human sacrifice notwithstanding.
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April 27th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Which Archbishop was it that ordered all the records of the Maya burned? We may never know how much knowlegde was lost in a single stroke there.

While I agree that many of the cultural practices were detestable, we must be careful to not forget that the Maya especially were more advanced than Europe in many areas. It was much like China: never properly used. The complete erasing of a people's cultural identity -- which is what the Catholic Church was attempting -- is a very poor practice. There is no doubt at all that the Native Americans were much worse off for the Spaniards having conquered them, canabalism and human sacrifice notwithstanding.

The Bishop was Diego de Landa. He also carried out a mini inquisition as the provincal of the Yucatan against the Mayans under his charge. Using the Spanish Crowns edict against idolatry.
April 27th, 2005  
Zucchini
 
Some histories imply a Cortez brought small pox to Latin America on purpose. They didn't have a clue as to how to control the disease, and he and his men could be just as susceptible to infection as his enemies or his indian allies.

I think they brought it inadvertently.

There are some sites that say it was brought in by a 2nd group of Spaniards who had slaves from Africa, and that it was a slave who first died of the disease.

Does anybody know if any of his men died of small pox?
April 28th, 2005  
WarMachine
 
 
there's probably a good chance that his men were affected by the disease seeing how we have no cure today for it. But i think there was something of an immunity to the disease for europeans because the virus wiped out millions in the americas, but i never heard of it killing a huge number of people in europe. Maybe it was because of the black plague, idk.
April 28th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
We shouldn´t be that surprised concerning what happened in America.
I am gonna give awiard example.
Imagine this situation in today´s world:

One day is discovered thatsome country from the third world practice Canibalism, they do human sacrifice, thay kill thousand a year this way....What do you think that would happen?? Probably we will bomb them from 10.000 meters high in the name of human rights.
The spanish empire also had their prejudice, it was religion, they were very fanatic at that time. today we have other prejudice and moral.So why do we expect Cortés to act a different way that we would have done??
Concerning the inquisition...yes, it was vey mean and bad, in today´s world, we would have send them to Abu Ghraib school or to Guantanamo´s University

Concernig the smalpox...I also read that it was brought to america by a slave in an expedition of a man called Narvaez.
April 28th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Remember that one of the biggest reasons that Black slaves from Africa were brought in to replace the Native American slaves in the Americas: The Natives kept dying too damn fast. Mostly from diseases that the Spaniards and others brought with them. There is certainly plenty of those that, like tuberculosis, a survivor is a carrier of the disease for the rest of their life. I'm not entirely sure, but I think Small Pox was one of those that was carried throughout one's life.

Black Slaves were hardy in terms of resistence to disease. Consider that Africa is one of the two big sources of new diseases and most Europeans who tried to explore Africa died from them. East Asia is you other big source.
April 29th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Yes, that is probably one of the reasons..the other might be that african people are lots stronger than indias.
Slavery was not set up in America until 1521. The reason was that Cortés lost a lot of gold in Mexico´s lake when he had to get out of there(he destroyed some idols and the indians got really mad) and he needed slaves to take it back. The first slaves were prisioners from an enemy tribe(can´t remember the name now, but i´ll write it down later..)
April 29th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Yes, that is probably one of the reasons..the other might be that african people are lots stronger than indias.
I don't know if "stronger" is the right word for it. Hardier, with bodies more capable of surviving prolonged forced labor. It's hard to say how much of that was simply due to death of Natives from diseases.

Quote:
Slavery was not set up in America until 1521. The reason was that Cortés lost a lot of gold in Mexico´s lake when he had to get out of there(he destroyed some idols and the indians got really mad) and he needed slaves to take it back. The first slaves were prisioners from an enemy tribe(can´t remember the name now, but i´ll write it down later..)
Interesting how Cortez managed to play his cards so well. I don't really think of him as a military genius so much. I see him more as an extremely gifted con man. One of the most gifted ever.