pixiedustboo
Redfidelboo
^LOL : )
Have Younger Men Become to Submissive to Women?
Yep. I don't want it ever to end. I say 'til death do us part' just ain't long enough.
The Other Guy
Spam King
Well, I'll keep looking, but I'm not promising anything! 
"Along with the bra burning period I think we burned another part of our social relations. I feel like submissive metrosexual men are all we are going to be getting. (Nothing against that in general, relationship wise however, quite a few of us women want a little more dominance).
What's your entire take on this?"
The bra burning did not happen, it was just a propaganda picture, still the early hardcore feminists were really extremists. Anyways..the scapegoat is not the feminists but different many things are in the root of the problem.
I come from a macho culture originaly but most of the 60's and 70's until mid 80's we were under military dictatorship (like other LA countries) the feminine causes did not fly as in other countries, as a banner for women. In my original culture it was diluted inside other more important banners as freedoms taken away by the regime etc
Then my perspectives comes mixed with my personal experiences and lets not forget the huge family influence we have when growing up and having exemples early on set up at home. My home was patriarchal in leadership style. I had great upbringing regarding family and extended family influences. Balanced father and mother.
My oppinion is that much we see today in male female relationships have to do with family braken apart, high divorce ratings, kids growing up with mothers mostly and fathers out of picture. There is a huge lack of leadership going on and much selfshness..I see many men a mix of angry, confuse, lost, weak, and women as agressive, needy, promiscous, bossy..unbalanced, unhappy, "all" frustrated with one another..and I do think it all start at their own families structures and dinamics. People are caring huge baggages very early on in life and that is very sad indeed and will reflect in their relationships throu life.
Hopefuly people do face and take care their on personal stuff, deal with their issues before embracing relationships, procriating.. imo.
What's your entire take on this?"
The bra burning did not happen, it was just a propaganda picture, still the early hardcore feminists were really extremists. Anyways..the scapegoat is not the feminists but different many things are in the root of the problem.
I come from a macho culture originaly but most of the 60's and 70's until mid 80's we were under military dictatorship (like other LA countries) the feminine causes did not fly as in other countries, as a banner for women. In my original culture it was diluted inside other more important banners as freedoms taken away by the regime etc
Then my perspectives comes mixed with my personal experiences and lets not forget the huge family influence we have when growing up and having exemples early on set up at home. My home was patriarchal in leadership style. I had great upbringing regarding family and extended family influences. Balanced father and mother.
My oppinion is that much we see today in male female relationships have to do with family braken apart, high divorce ratings, kids growing up with mothers mostly and fathers out of picture. There is a huge lack of leadership going on and much selfshness..I see many men a mix of angry, confuse, lost, weak, and women as agressive, needy, promiscous, bossy..unbalanced, unhappy, "all" frustrated with one another..and I do think it all start at their own families structures and dinamics. People are caring huge baggages very early on in life and that is very sad indeed and will reflect in their relationships throu life.
Hopefuly people do face and take care their on personal stuff, deal with their issues before embracing relationships, procriating.. imo.
rattler
Active member
I cannot really form an opinion, because in the context of the poll I display "old" for not to say "dinosaur" (but I voted "no" anyway).
Just a story from our last election for the major in our small village:
At the entrance to the voting locale there were three doors: One saying "Dominated Men" and the 2nd "Dominating Men", 3rd: "Ladies" (you have to know this island is one of the few in the Med organized as a matriarchy).
While I am not allowed to vote here as a foreigner, I found it interesting there was a loooooong queue in front of the first door, and only one guy standing in front of the 2nd, so I went to ask him why he chose that door, and he answered: "My wife told me to queue here"...
And he was not young.
Rattler
Just a story from our last election for the major in our small village:
At the entrance to the voting locale there were three doors: One saying "Dominated Men" and the 2nd "Dominating Men", 3rd: "Ladies" (you have to know this island is one of the few in the Med organized as a matriarchy).
While I am not allowed to vote here as a foreigner, I found it interesting there was a loooooong queue in front of the first door, and only one guy standing in front of the 2nd, so I went to ask him why he chose that door, and he answered: "My wife told me to queue here"...
And he was not young.
Rattler
C/2nd Lt Robot
Active member
After some college-ing I still say it's not at all clear cut. To simplify things I'll make a list.
Dudes who are dating: Woe is me emo kid, prep, Mr. frat, jock, meat head, nerd, geek, socially awkward guy, knuckle dragging caveman, Mr. ego, gamer, that guy, Mr. cheater, Mr. prissy, Mr. attention, Nancy Drew, ROTC dude, and Joe 6 pack. Just an FYI, Mr. attention is the dude in the weight room who drops heavy weights after each set; and Nancy drew is the guy who wears those fingerless gloves for EVERY :cen: exercise.
Dudes who are not dating: Woe is me emo kid, prep, Mr. frat, jock, meat head, nerd, geek, socially awkward guy, knuckle dragging caveman, Mr. ego, gamer, that guy, Mr. cheater, Mr. prissy, Mr. attention, Nancy Drew, ROTC dude, and Joe 6 pack.
I only have 19 years of living in me and can't really say much about trends from when I wasn't alive. But from what I've seen the number of pansies have stayed fairly constant. One reason why they seem to be the norm is because knuckle draggers, men, and "men" are all in the background doing s*** (you can take that any way you please because it'll probably work).
Problem is I can go on and on and on without saying anything new, but the motif would be "We're not sure what we want." I have a slight feeling that basing relationships on "sex appeal" is one reason why divorce rates are high - don't get me wrong, I want a chick who is drop dead gorgeous because I can't motorboat her personality but sacrifices can be made . . . I guess. With that being said I'm going to go pump iron, scarf down about 3lbs of food, tailgate my :cen: off, and tear my shirt off at today's football game.
- Sincerely,
CDT Chelios
former pansy
Dudes who are dating: Woe is me emo kid, prep, Mr. frat, jock, meat head, nerd, geek, socially awkward guy, knuckle dragging caveman, Mr. ego, gamer, that guy, Mr. cheater, Mr. prissy, Mr. attention, Nancy Drew, ROTC dude, and Joe 6 pack. Just an FYI, Mr. attention is the dude in the weight room who drops heavy weights after each set; and Nancy drew is the guy who wears those fingerless gloves for EVERY :cen: exercise.
Dudes who are not dating: Woe is me emo kid, prep, Mr. frat, jock, meat head, nerd, geek, socially awkward guy, knuckle dragging caveman, Mr. ego, gamer, that guy, Mr. cheater, Mr. prissy, Mr. attention, Nancy Drew, ROTC dude, and Joe 6 pack.
I only have 19 years of living in me and can't really say much about trends from when I wasn't alive. But from what I've seen the number of pansies have stayed fairly constant. One reason why they seem to be the norm is because knuckle draggers, men, and "men" are all in the background doing s*** (you can take that any way you please because it'll probably work).
Problem is I can go on and on and on without saying anything new, but the motif would be "We're not sure what we want." I have a slight feeling that basing relationships on "sex appeal" is one reason why divorce rates are high - don't get me wrong, I want a chick who is drop dead gorgeous because I can't motorboat her personality but sacrifices can be made . . . I guess. With that being said I'm going to go pump iron, scarf down about 3lbs of food, tailgate my :cen: off, and tear my shirt off at today's football game.
- Sincerely,
CDT Chelios
former pansy
Jilly
Active member
So true. I come from a culture where men have always been aggressive, it's what's expected of them, it's how they are, it's how they are brought up to be. And it's what I have been used to. I have never dated a guy who was any other way, perhaps it's just something that we have been conditioned to? dunno.
As I've gotten older, I've started to appreciate the 'good guys' more, but, it's true, they don't necessarily turn me on though. Kind of sad really. I don't think the younger guys are necessarily more submissive then they used to be, but they are different. I've seen that the younger men treated women more as equals and that's a good thing. But I do appreciate men who look and act like men, but also know how to treat a women with respect and as an equal. Yep, I guess we women want it all, and sometimes we want one thing and then another, no wonder so many guys are confused about what they are supposed to be like. :neutral:
rattler
Active member
Well, if you want my opinion on what works best for all (not refering to young men and so hijacking the thread a bit):
- Be a man conscious of being it and do not fear to be it, with the faults that that condition brings along in womens eyes, understanding there is a lot you can do better than them (and in general this will not be social skills or adorning family environment ).
- Treat women with respect and acknowledge for yourself (which for me is an integral part of my first line) their equal rights as person, understanding they are different (very, actually), covering other angles of life and even know to do a lot of things better than we men could (and in general this will not parking the family car... ).
- Strive for the combination of "caveman" and "good guy": Supply to them what you can do where they cannot, and take (learn) from them what they can do and you cannot.
Harem theory says: A woman needs a guy that can repair the car, one to talk to and who understands them, one who excells in bed, and one who makes enough money... and it is important they never meet.... Seriously, there is some truth in that, you can be all of that, but it costs some effort (and, just FDR, the harem theory works the other way around as well: Star cook, *****, and Grande Dame sort of sum it up, and it is the same hard work).
My 2c
Rattler
- Be a man conscious of being it and do not fear to be it, with the faults that that condition brings along in womens eyes, understanding there is a lot you can do better than them (and in general this will not be social skills or adorning family environment
). - Treat women with respect and acknowledge for yourself (which for me is an integral part of my first line) their equal rights as person, understanding they are different (very, actually), covering other angles of life and even know to do a lot of things better than we men could (and in general this will not parking the family car...
).- Strive for the combination of "caveman" and "good guy": Supply to them what you can do where they cannot, and take (learn) from them what they can do and you cannot.
Harem theory says: A woman needs a guy that can repair the car, one to talk to and who understands them, one who excells in bed, and one who makes enough money... and it is important they never meet...
. Seriously, there is some truth in that, you can be all of that, but it costs some effort (and, just FDR, the harem theory works the other way around as well: Star cook, *****, and Grande Dame sort of sum it up, and it is the same hard work).My 2c
Rattler
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Jilly
Active member
Words of wisdom there, Rattler. And also maybe words of experience, huh? ;-)
In the end, does it all boil down to the the fact that opposites attract? I wonder. By that I mean; feminine women like the macho, aggressive (Okay assertive if you like), type of men. And these kind of men seem to be drawn to the feminine type of women. Perhaps they are trying to compensate for what is missing in themselves in some way? Could be something in that, I reckon.
In the end, does it all boil down to the the fact that opposites attract? I wonder. By that I mean; feminine women like the macho, aggressive (Okay assertive if you like), type of men. And these kind of men seem to be drawn to the feminine type of women. Perhaps they are trying to compensate for what is missing in themselves in some way? Could be something in that, I reckon.
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pixiedustboo
Redfidelboo
+1.
And Jilly, I agree with you also, opposites attract.
p.s. On a side note, I finally found a wonderful mix of "caveman" and "good guy" in a man and I hope it works out because it's just what I thought didn't exist anymore and what I'd only be able to find in romance novels.
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John Lydon
Active member
Some of this has to be the fault of the Fathers of the younger guys. Young boys need positive male role models to teach them how to be a man. On this forum most guys already know how to act like a man because the military gives you plenty of role models if you needed one but in the real world boys are not becoming men because they don't know how.
Dr. Phil tells them to cry and share their feelings and society tells them to dress like prom queens and bow down to everyone. Without a male influence, things will just get worse.
.....That ends my public service announcement.
Dr. Phil tells them to cry and share their feelings and society tells them to dress like prom queens and bow down to everyone. Without a male influence, things will just get worse.
.....That ends my public service announcement.
pixiedustboo
Redfidelboo
Very well said. I agree.
Some of this has to be the fault of the Fathers of the younger guys. Young boys need positive male role models to teach them how to be a man. QUOTE]
That shouldnt be an excuse....not everyone grows up around positive people that serve as good role models...its up to the person to want to be responsible and do the right thing...
pixiedustboo
Redfidelboo
It's not really an excuse, it's a valid point. A boy who grows up with a mother and only sisters may not turn out the same as a boy who grows up with a solid family structure.That shouldnt be an excuse....not everyone grows up around positive people that serve as good role models...its up to the person to want to be responsible and do the right thing...
(Though that is partly the mother's duty, not to raise her boy the same as a girl).
The Other Guy
Spam King
Exactly. There are big burly looking tough guys with an IQ lower than the number on their football jersey who have really calm intelligent parents, and there are wispy guys who have parents who served in the military. Having a male role model does not equal overly assertive men. It can equal abusive boyfriend, though, and that's what I've seen more often.
That shouldnt be an excuse....not everyone grows up around positive people that serve as good role models...its up to the person to want to be responsible and do the right thing...
I have 3 older brothers, 1 older sister, and I makes 5....my mother was a single mother..my brothers never had a male role model except for my awsome mom who did a wonderful job of raising us all'.....all of my brothers are in the military...one is a homocide detective,..my sister a nurse, and I a teacher...we all turned out to be fine citizens.....like i said..you cant live on excuses....I base my opinion on experience not theory...
John Lydon
Active member
I'm willing to bet your brothers had positive male role models in their life though sky. Whether it was a teacher, friends dad, or whoever. My point was that without showing a boy how to be a man, they never will become one. We can't count on society to raise our kids.
Nope...we had no male role model, other than momma...people dont always need that "male figure"....