Feds target Blackwater in weapons probe (AP)

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AP - Federal prosecutors are investigating whether employees of the private security firm Blackwater USA illegally smuggled into Iraq weapons that may have been sold on the black market and ended up in the hands of a U.S.-designated terrorist organization, officials said Friday.



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Yep, that's BS. More bad news, Iraqi government wants Blackwater out of their country since they "accident" shot a Iraqi lawyer that ran away from them......Wonder why that lawyer tried to ran away from them...
 
Yep, that's BS. More bad news, Iraqi government wants Blackwater out of their country since they "accident" shot a Iraqi lawyer that ran away from them......Wonder why that lawyer tried to ran away from them...

True! Thats not good
 
Yep, that's BS. More bad news, Iraqi government wants Blackwater out of their country since they "accident" shot a Iraqi lawyer that ran away from them......Wonder why that lawyer tried to ran away from them...


or no, it's cause they randomly opened fire on civilians
 
It is true that until very recently, not a single contractor ever faced trial for accidental murder of civilians.
The guys in the military often have the tougher missions where it's even HARDER to tell civilian from foe and they have to face trial all the time. It's a bit unfortunate but we can't say it's completely uncalled for.
It's just the reality of modern warfare. Sucks, but what can you do?
 
or no, it's cause they randomly opened fire on civilians



for the above comment i earned my self some un-named, neg rep that simply stated "wrong".


now despite the cowardly act of not putting hi name behind his opinion, maybe he should spend a bit of time reading, or watching the news.


black water was ****-canned in iraq for opening fire on civiliians, including an iraqi policeman.

proof:

On September 17, 2007, Blackwater's license to operate in Iraq was revoked, resulting from a highly contentious incident during which some number of Iraqis were killed. Early reports put the number of dead at 28,[40], but that number was eventually lowered to eight.[41]. The fatalities occurred while a Blackwater Private Security Detail (PSD) was escorting a convoy of US State Department vehicles en route to a meeting in western Baghdad with United States Agency for International Development officials.
According to Blackwater, a Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Device (VBIED) detonated close to the meeting point.[42]. The security team then evacuated the officials as the convoy passed through Nissor Square, between the Sunni controlled al-Mansour and al-Yarmukh neighborhoods, it was attacked. According to Blackwater VP Marty Strong, it was hit with "a large explosive device" and "repeated small arms fire" disabling one of the vehicles.[42] Several sources have stated that the explosion was caused by a mortar round, though this is not reflected in the Department of State incident report.[43][44] A State Department report states that eight to ten attackers then opened fire "from multiple nearby locations, with some aggressors dressed in civilian apparel and others in Iraqi police uniforms". As the convoy tried to escape, its route was blocked by insurgents armed with machine guns. According to the incident report, the attack occurred at 12:08pm and goes on to state that "The team returned fire to several identified targets" before leaving the area, and that a second convoy en route to help was "blocked/surrounded by several Iraqi police and Iraqi national guard vehicles and armed personnel".[45] A US Army convoy, possibly the same one delayed by Iraqi forces, arrived approximately a half hour later, backed by air cover, to escort the convoy back to the Green Zone.[42] A Blackwater helicopter was also present at some point during the attack, and according to a Washington Post employee, it fired several times from the air, although Blackwater has denied this.[46]
According to an Iraqi investigation into the events at Nissor Square, as the convoy drew close to Nissor Square, a car, driving very slowly, on the wrong side of the road, ignored a police officer's whistle to clear a path for the convoy. Shortly after this, the security team fired warning shots, and then lethal fire. Sound bombs were also fired. Iraqi Army soldiers, mistaking the sound-bombs for explosions, opened fire at the Blackwater team, to which the Blackwater team responded.[47][48] A Reuters report showed some of the vehicles which were left at the scene.[49]
Iraqi Brigadier-General Abdul-Karim Khalaf has stated that a mortar landed close to the convoy and said the US firm had 'opened fire randomly at citizens'. Among those killed was one policeman. No State Department officials were wounded or killed.[50] The State Department had not been notified of the Iraqi government's decision to revoke the license, and declined to speculate how it might affect State Department activities. Many doubt that the Iraqi government will have the resolve to revoke Blackwater's license over the long term due to Blackwater's political influence and other factors. Retired Marine Lt. Col. Bill Cowan, an independent military analyst and co-chairman of security consulting firm WVC3 Group, was quoted on September 17, 2007, by the Associated Press as saying: "You can bet the U.S. embassy is doing backflips right now pressuring the Iraqis not to revoke their license."[51]
Interior Ministry spokesman Brig. Gen. Abdul Kareem Khalaf said "the investigation is ongoing, and all those responsible for Sunday's killing will be referred to Iraqi justice." Iraqi authorities have issued previous complaints about shootings by private military contractors, but Iraqi courts did not have the authority to bring contractors to trial without the consent of their home country, according to a report from the Congressional Research Service.[52].
In other news, Iraq says it will wait for the results of an investigation into the killing of 11 Iraqi civilians in an incident involving the Blackwater USA security firm before taking any action.
Iraqi officials accuse Blackwater guards of shooting 11 Iraqis to death on a Baghdad street on September 16. Blackwater says its guards reacted lawfully to an attack on a U.S. diplomatic convoy they were escorting.
http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-09-24-voa14.cfm

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/19/eveningnews/main3278890.shtml
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2994800
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7003473.stm
On August 12, 2007, an MSNBC report noted the largely unaccountable and unsupervised nature of security contractor activities, and the high number of casual or indiscriminate civilian killings attributed to them. According to the State Department, on December 24, 2006, a civilian U.S. contractor, allegedly a Blackwater employee, shot and killed an Iraqi security officer.[36] In late May 2007, Blackwater contractors, "opened fire on the streets of Baghdad twice in two days... and one of the incidents provoked a standoff between the security contractors and Iraqi Interior Ministry commandos, U.S. and Iraqi officials said."[24] And on May 30, 2007, Blackwater employees shot an Iraqi civilian deemed to have been "driving too close" to a State Department convoy being escorted by Blackwater contractors.[37][24] Other private security contractors, such as Aegis Defence Services have also been accused of similar actions.[38] However, "Doug Brooks, the president of the International Peace Operations Association, a trade group representing Blackwater and other military contractors, said that in his view, military law would not apply to Blackwater employees working for the State Department."[39]
now....thats fine if you disagree with me, or the opinion that blackwater are nothing but cowboys, a private army of mercenaries that answer no one.

but if you feel strongly about it to leave rep....put your name to it. or even better....keep it in the discussion, and we can discuss it
 
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Negative rep points removed.
This is not the proper way to use the reputation system!


Carry on folks, nothing more to see here.. :smil:
 
Infern0 is right that Blackwater and other contractors have been at times too trigger happy for their own damn good and have shot at civilians with far less discretion than their counterparts in the military. This is true. I don't see why this claim is being strongly contested.
 
Negative rep points removed.
This is not the proper way to use the reputation system!


Carry on folks, nothing more to see here.. :smil:


well it's back again.

Feds target Blackwater... September 26th, 2007 11:30 PM they dont shoot civilians
i never asked for it to be removed in the first place, but someone is playing mickey mouse games with the rep system. it's cowardly....and i think if thats the way people are going to play it...then the system should be removed, or at a bare minimum the names automatically left

i dont see why i should be punished by some nameless coward, just because my opinion doesn't scan with their blinkered take on reality, mind you if it carries on i'm considering responding in kind whenever i disagree with them, but cant form a coherent argument


back on topic;

when did having mercenaries running around become ok again....my perception has always been that they're opportunistic scum at best, casual murders for hire etc etc

is it because their american in white cowboy hats? thoughts?
 
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The reason why their reception is good right now is because they are filling in the gaps that are hard to fill in Iraq. And currently, the mold of those going over there are people with combat skills who aren't in the service and need a quick buck. Not your typical line mercenaries that we're familiar with, in general that is. Mercenaries have always been around and will continue to exist.
Like I said, the real problem will arise when the conflict is over. That's when decent folks will walk away from these companies in search of long term, stable jobs... and that's when these companies will turn ugly.
Heck, they don't even need to hire Americans. They can hire various ex-Special Ops personnel from armies that have long oppressed and murdered innocent people and they can ship them half way around the world to stir up trouble there.
But I believe this is a wakeup call. Too many leashes have been tied to the military's overstretched neck. It's preventing them from being effective. Even getting them to stop the killing in Darfur is a seemingly impossible task, especially if you channel it through the UN, which in turn uses 3rd rate armies who aren't trained, equipped or motivated enough to handle delicate situations.
 
when did having mercenaries running around become ok again....my perception has always been that they're opportunistic scum at best, casual murders for hire etc etc

is it because their american in white cowboy hats? thoughts?


Exactly. Your perception. BW aside there some some exceptional PMC's that did outstanding work in the past. Excecutive Outcomes, Sandline International, Ghurka Security Intl etc. etc.
 
Exactly. Your perception. BW aside there some some exceptional PMC's that did outstanding work in the past. Excecutive Outcomes, Sandline International, Ghurka Security Intl etc. etc.

Yeah, I have a family member who worked in conjunction with at least one of the above, and it didn't improve my perception of them at all, perhaps somewhat the reverse, guns for hire, Cowboys on a long leash.
 
And sometimes thats whats needed when the rest of the "civilized" world can't be bothered.

Liberia, Sierria Leon
 
Some of those places just need to be just "contained" and allowed to stew in their own juices for a century or two. There are places in this world that are just not ready for civilisation as we know it, just yet. Their mindset is completely at odds with the whole concept, this includes all of those places where "fundamentalist" rule is in place.
 
This is precisely the reason why you should NEVER use Mercs.

Mercs are loyal to nobody except whoever is pays them the most. That loyalty can very quickly change if the price is right. Take these two jokers, they figured they could make a few extra bucks selling weapons on the side. Who cares if those weapons might get turned on civilians or more likely US troops, its the mighty greenback that matters.

In one article I read, a journalist overheard a blackwater person complaining on his cell phone that he was only making a mere $350 a day. That's 10x more than a US soldier makes.

Even the US military cannot stand them...

From Wikipedia:

In September 2005, Brigadier General Karl Horst, deputy commander of the Third Infantry Division charged with Baghdad security after the 2003 invasion, said of DynCorp and other PMCs (Mercenaries) in Iraq:

"These guys run loose in this country and do stupid stuff. There's no authority over them, so you can't come down on them hard when they escalate force... They shoot people, and someone else has to deal with the aftermath. It happens all over the place".


 
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In one article I read, a journalist overheard a blackwater person complaining on his cell phone that he was only making a mere $350 a day. That's 10x more than a US soldier makes

US$1000 per diem is not unusual, depending on what you are doing and where you are. For some, this is not enough and they get into little scams on the side.

The trouble being that it must stay overseas in a foreign account otherwise the tax man wants his share. Using your credit card to draw it down a few thousand at a time attracts unwelcome attention after a short time, the ATO (IRS to you Americans) are not fools. This means frequent trips abroad which bites into your bottom line. They watch you like a hawk.
 
The reason why their reception is good right now is because they are filling in the gaps that are hard to fill in Iraq. And currently, the mold of those going over there are people with combat skills who aren't in the service and need a quick buck. Not your typical line mercenaries that we're familiar with, in general that is. Mercenaries have always been around and will continue to exist.
Like I said, the real problem will arise when the conflict is over. That's when decent folks will walk away from these companies in search of long term, stable jobs... and that's when these companies will turn ugly.
Heck, they don't even need to hire Americans. They can hire various ex-Special Ops personnel from armies that have long oppressed and murdered innocent people and they can ship them half way around the world to stir up trouble there.

People who leave the Military to become Mercenaries may just like the killing a bit too much, as for the US Companies, their track record in Iraq, in my opinion, means they should be outlawed by the United States Government.
 
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