Marcelo Jenisch
Active member
I think if Hitler invaded the USSR like historically, but didn't have the Western Allies as enemies, even if he didn't won, it would be at least very much harder for the Soviets won.
Getting back to Hitler´s blunder of not accepting the USSR into the axis in 1940.
Not only could the USSR have easily invaded Iran early in 1941, it could also have easily invaded Northern Sweden, while Germany invaded southern Sweden with the troops in Norway, securing Bofors AAA, its steel and explosives industry, iron ore, merchant fleet, etc,
The red navy could have also helped considerably the weak KM with its submarines and surface ships to destroy the British navy in the North Atlantic, capture Iceland (an invaluable base for planes and subs) and break the British naval blockade on Germany. Most importantly, after capturing Persia and Iraq, the red army could have advanced towards Egypt, while Italy and Germany attacked from Libya and Somalia, dooming the British forces there.
Another aspect that is often neglected is the great power than Stalin held over the communists in Britain, America, Canada, etc, which could have helped the axis by slowing industrial production in these countries, sabotaging infrastructure, etc, Most importantly, had Stalin joined the axis he would have had to stop providing China with help that caused a lot of trouble for the Japanese.
Once Britain and China were defeated, the axis could have easily turned on the USSR
A most interesting aspect of WW II is the efficiency with which the axis used its meager fuel supplies, despite fighting far from the member countries.
Japan had incredibly little oil and wasted a lot of it attacking PH, and then pointlessly in the Coral Sea, Aleutians, Midway (where most of the ships didn't even enter the fray but stayed hundreds of km behind and then returned to Japan after burning a lot of fuel), New Guinea and Guadalcanal.
Italy didn't have enough oil even to transport supplies to near Tripoli, but had to rely on German oil. Yet the axis managed to fight well for years.
Had Japan captured Hawaii and sunk the US carriers, instead of attacking simultaneously Thailand, the Philippines, Malaya, Honk Kong, etc, The invaluable oil, salvageable ships, scrap iron, aluminum and bronze scrap in Hawaii would have tipped the balance in favor of Japan and made it extremely difficult for America to counter attack. Japan then would have had plenty of time to eliminate the British from the Pacific and Indian Oceans.
Once Germany had given up on the Battle of Britain they where on the slippery slope as they left the door opened to be bombed, which was not a problem for the first couple of years then things went down hill fast once the heavy four bombers came on stream. This caused them to allocate a million people for home defence when they could be better used else where.
Soviet production was completely unbalanced
Yes, as the War began to go against Germany. The static FLAK batteries in Germany continued to be operated by the Army, Navy and Air Force, but personnel were replaced by older men in the Home Guard, youth in the Reich Labor Service (RAD), and Hitler Youth boys and girls. Women auxiliaries were also involved. There were a variety of other personnel involved, including Italian, Hungarian, and Russian POWs.Women operated Flak guns in Germany?
There are so many fanciful if and buts on this thread and some of them are so fanciful as to be laughable.
No, they received nothing. Scientific research in the field of penicillin in the Soviet Union dates back to 1942, when research was organized in the Laboratory of the Biochemistry of Microbes at the Institute of Experimental Medicine. A usefull production did not appear until the end of 1946, and was not accessible to soldiers untill the middle of 1947.BTW, did the Soviets received penicillin? Not a critical factor of course, but curiosity of mine...
Maybe one day we will. We invented both the atomic bomb and the flying saucer, you know. ;-)I have to agree, I have started to back slowly away from this discussion before they paint a swastika on Santa's slay and invade North Africa with his elves.
I have to agree, I have started to back slowly away from this discussion before they paint a swastika on Santa's slay and invade North Africa with his elves.
Lend Lease didn't save the USSR from defeat – the Soviets would have won the key battles of Moscow, Leningrad and Stalingrad without it. Lend Lease made the gigantic Red Army more efficient by improving its logistics and communications.American trucks not only pulled artillery, they supplied the tanks and troops from the railroad, sometimes far away from the fighting. Thousands of American troops were also used to launch Katyusha rockets by the hundreds of thousands and to transport said rockets.
Zhukov doesn't mention the crucial fuel, aluminum, planes, tanks, trains, food, etc, without which the red army was powerless.
Soviet production was completely unbalanced, on the one hand they produced 7 million submachine guns, a half million cannon, 100,000 tanks, etc, but extremely little food (the Ukraine being in German hands), fuel and all the other items that they were extremely lucky to receive from Santa Claus but without which they would have collapsed.
So without Lend Lease, the Soviet timetable would have suffered delays, meaning the Red Army would take longer to reach Berlin. Impossible to say exactly how much longer, but I think the delay would be measured in months rather than weeks, although not in years.
Maybe one day we will. We invented both the atomic bomb and the flying saucer, you know. ;-)
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