Dowding's Costly Blunder in the Battle of France - Page 12




 
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November 26th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
Read the London Times article criticizing the dismal failure to sink the German ships during the Channel Dash, stating The Germans have succeeded where Medina-Sidonia failed.

The Norway debacle was severely and openly critized and cost Chamberlain his post (not Churchill, the instigator).
The Greece debacle was severely criticized by news papers and military alike, etc,

Somehow, everybody forgot Churchill's blunders when his inspirational speeches and books praised how they were performing so well in their finest hour. Mass denial.
November 26th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samneanderthal
It is unfortunate that the British, French, Polish and Belgian pilots who had to face the LW on may 10, 1940 flying the worst planes cannot voice their opinion of Dowding's decision to keep the Spitfires, best Hurricanes and many pilots in Britain.
It is unfortunate that the hundreds of thousands of allied soldiers who had to face the densest and most prolonged ground support by the Luftwaffe cannot voice their opinion about the British planes in reserve while they were blown to smitherines.
It is unfortunate that the hundreds of thousands of Belgians, Frenchmen, Dutch, etc, who had to live under German rule for years cannot voice their opinion about Dowding's decision.
It is fortunate that an ignorant bastard like me can can voice his opinion:
Dowding was beaten in France and would have been beaten in Britain, had it not been by the few foreign pilots who didn't give up, despite Dowding's incompetence. He wasted his most valuable resource, the pilots in order to save his planes and could not have known that these foreign pilots would save him, but he knew that hundreds of French pilots would be out of the war if France capitulated. So he lost a few hundred British pilots, several hundred French pilots, a thousand mediocre planes and the huge French army and navy and a hundred of his precious modern fighters to evacuate from France in order to save a few hundred Hurricanes and even fewer Spitfires.
I don't care if a million experts and a billion people who were educated to admire Dowding, Churchill, Monty, etc, praise them, to me they were lousy leaders.
Did you ever thought about why the German attack is called "Blitzkrieg" ?
Did you ever thought about how an air force squadron is moved to another airfield? It's not alone the planes you know!
Did you ever thought about the vulnerability of airfields that are within striking range of the enemy?
Keeping the Hurricanes and Spitfires in England was the best choice and because of that the foreign pilots could keep on fighting.
November 26th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samneanderthal
Read the London Times article criticizing the dismal failure to sink the German ships during the Channel Dash, stating The Germans have succeeded where Medina-Sidonia failed.

The Norway debacle was severely and openly critized and cost Chamberlain his post (not Churchill, the instigator).
The Greece debacle was severely criticized by news papers and military alike, etc,

Somehow, everybody forgot Churchill's blunders when his inspirational speeches and books praised how they were performing so well in their finest hour. Mass denial.
bachelor's wives and maiden's children are well trained
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November 26th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
the question is did you ever think?
And yes, I've thought about these things.
Having few planes at the front, facing a lot of enemy planes makes their planes, Radar, living quarters, hangars, mechanics, fuel tanks, etc, far more vulnerable to the many enemy aircraft than having a lot more friendly planes around.
There were more months for Dowding to send the few hundred modern planes in reserve in Britain to next door France than there were for the LF to send a thousand planes, many of them bombers with more engines, requiring more fuel, mechanics and tons of bombs to Norway or far away Bulgaria to attack Greece in a few weeks. Hell, the Luftwaffe sent planes from Stalingrad to Africa, weatherized them and used in battle within weeks. What is the stupid problem with sending a few fighters from Britain to France or from Scotland, North and West Anglia or Wales to South and E. Anglia?
November 26th, 2011  
VDKMS
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samneanderthal
the question is did you ever think?
And yes, I've thought about these things.
Having few planes at the front, facing a lot of enemy planes makes their planes, living quarters, hangars, mechanics, fuel tanks, etc, far more vulnerable to the many enemy aircraft that having a lot more friendly planes around.
There were more months for Dowding to send the few hundred modern planes in reserve in Britain to next door France than there were for the LF to send a thousand planes, many of them bombers with more engines, requiring more fuel, mechanics and tons of bombs to Norway or far away Bulgaria to attack Greece in a few weeks. Hell, the Luftwaffe sent planes from Stalingrad to Africa, weatherized them and used in battle within weeks. What is the stupid problem with sending a few fighters from Britain to France or from Scotland, North ANglia or Wales to South and E. Anglia?
The allies were retreating - the Germans advancing. Logistically a big difference.
November 26th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
Yes it is much more difficult to advance conquering terrain that to defend terrain you already occupy close to your production centers.
November 27th, 2011  
LeEnfield
 
 
The odd thing was that all the details for dealing with a major break out by the Germans from a Chanel port was kept in a safe at RAF Station Biggin Hill. Now all the code words to active a response were in there along with the details of the units that had been taught how to respond. Now by a quirk of fate or out right stupidity the Officer in charge of all of this had gone on leave and had taken the key with him, I know this sounds daft but it is true. The response to this break then became peace meal and not effective.
November 27th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
Thanks Lee,
It taked guts to admit to a British mistake.
It takes more than a dumb guy for something like that to happen, the officer in charge could have busted the lock or contacted the originator of the response plan, or in the worst case, improvised.
The same thing happened in the Philippines. The famous MacArthur was supposed to put in action the Rainbow plan to attack the Japanese airfields in Formosa as soon as war broke out. But he did nothing when he was notified of the attack in PH, so the Japs promptly destroyed the American planes. MacArthur tried to pretend that he was not aware of the plan, but the officer in charge of the planes had contacted him and he refused to set it in motion. Even had the officer not contacted him, the planes were his most important asset and he had the responsability to be familiar with the plan and to put it in action. Hell, even if there had not been any plan, MacArthur should have bombed the Jap planes ASAP.
November 27th, 2011  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
The odd thing was that all the details for dealing with a major break out by the Germans from a Chanel port was kept in a safe at RAF Station Biggin Hill. Now all the code words to active a response were in there along with the details of the units that had been taught how to respond. Now by a quirk of fate or out right stupidity the Officer in charge of all of this had gone on leave and had taken the key with him, I know this sounds daft but it is true. The response to this break then became peace meal and not effective.
The british were fully aware of the upcoming Dash, but let them get away with it to protect Ultra eavesdropping. It was the correct decision, the Dash had no big impact on the war's course.
November 27th, 2011  
lljadw
 
That the German warships could leave(better :fly) for the Ostsee,was a good thing for Britain .As long as they were in the French harbours,they were a potential danger,in the Ostsee,they could do no harm,and,if I am not wrong,at least one of the ships was out for a long,very long time .(the Scharnhorst was out for 8 months)
Message from Roosevelt to Churchill:
The location of all the German ships in Germany (=the Ostsee) makes our joint North Atlantic naval problem more simple .
 


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