Originally Posted by Kagusthan

First of all, there is no need for profanity in this open forum. So let’s have some healthy, decent and useful discussions and please learn some netiquette, shall we?

Secondly, we have been trying for the last 30 years everything in order to explore other options and tools to combat terrorism such as the means of non-military strategies.

We tried Sun Tzu, the best way to win a war is without even fighting it. As such, eliminating the will to fight and destroying the spirit of the enemy’s potential to fight is also paramount.

Then we were told that an ideology has to be fought with another set of ideologies, rather than by swords and guns; may it be a religious ideology, ethno-nationalist ideology or secessionist ideology.

We even tried, Confucius, Don’t use cannon to kill a mosquito….but you know what, nothing seemed to work with those hardcore terrorists, mate; so finally we invented our own theory that “terrorism can only be neutralized by terrorism”, and guess what it worked!!! We scared the hell out of them with the very same game they’d played.

Have you ever heard in the history of terrorism that a terrorist organization held more than 300,000 thousand civilians as hostage? Not only they held them hostage but also they used as a buffer mere human shield. What would you do in that situation? Would you negotiate with terrorists? Name a country who is ready negotiate with terrorists?

Yes, I agree with Mao Tse Tung, who wrote that guerrillas are like fish in an ocean of people. The LTTE “fish” brilliantly exploited how to make use of the “ocean” of the general populace. Since every LTTE cadre was Sri Lankan of Tamil origin, unfortunately the whole Tamil society in Sri Lanka came under suspicion. In an effort to detect and disrupt potential attacks, the Sri Lankan security forces established extreme security measures, including check points, cordon and search operations, abductions, detention camps, aggressive interrogation, disappearances, harassment and humiliation. Tamil men and women are still being treated in this way on a daily basis because they could possibly be former LTTE cadres. These counter measures of the Sri Lankan Security Forces in turn justify criticism that Tamils are not granted basic human rights within their own homeland.

That may have worked in Sri Lanka...but it would not work in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Did the Sri Lankan military ever literally move into the villages, cities, and hamlets of the Tamil territory? Did they ever run patrols out of these outposts that were set up within the very epicenters of the population? Were counter Tamil forces organized and utilized to give a separate but legitimate force the Tamils could rely on that was backed by the Sri Lankan government? How was the civilian population denied to the insurgents before the reign of terror began?

Originally Posted by Kagusthan

First of all, there is no need for profanity in this open forum. So let’s have some healthy, decent and useful discussions and please learn some netiquette, shall we?

Secondly, we have been trying for the last 30 years everything in order to explore other options and tools to combat terrorism such as the means of non-military strategies.

We tried Sun Tzu, the best way to win a war is without even fighting it. As such, eliminating the will to fight and destroying the spirit of the enemy’s potential to fight is also paramount.

Then we were told that an ideology has to be fought with another set of ideologies, rather than by swords and guns; may it be a religious ideology, ethno-nationalist ideology or secessionist ideology.

We even tried, Confucius, "don’t use cannon to kill a mosquito"….but you know what, nothing seemed to work with those hardcore terrorists, mate; so finally we invented our own theory that “terrorism can only be neutralized by terrorism”, and guess what it worked!!! We scared the hell out of them with the very same game they’d played.

Have you ever heard in the history of terrorism that a terrorist organization held more than 300,000 thousand civilians as hostage? Not only they held them hostage but also they used the civilians as a buffer mere human shield. What would you do in that situation? Would you negotiate with terrorists? Name a country which is ready negotiate with terrorists?

Yes, I agree with Mao Tse Tung, who wrote that guerrillas are like fish in an ocean of people. The LTTE “fish” brilliantly exploited how to make use of the “ocean” of the general populace. Since every LTTE cadre was Sri Lankan of Tamil origin, unfortunately the whole Tamil society in Sri Lanka came under suspicion. In an effort to detect and disrupt potential attacks, the Sri Lankan security forces established extreme security measures, including check points, cordon and search operations, abductions, detention camps, aggressive interrogation, disappearances, harassment and humiliation. Tamil men and women are still being treated in this way on a daily basis because they could possibly be former LTTE cadres. These counter measures of the Sri Lankan Security Forces in turn justify criticism that Tamils are not granted basic human rights within their own homeland.

First of all, this is a military forum where many of us are veterans. I see things as they are and I don´t sugarcoat my opinions especially when I talk to someone who is supposed to be veteran as well. Live with that.

Seems to me that your military leadership has fumbled around in the dark without having a clue.

What you guys tried was to fight fire with fire. It`s possible but it isn't an encouragement to purchase a flamethrower. In other words, to match aggression with more aggression. Meet violence with more substantial violence. He sends one of yours to the hospital; you send one of his to the morgue. You know -- the Chicago way.

A fire needs heat, oxygen and fuel, to continue raging. Rob the fire of either source of nourishment and you squelch the chemical reaction that produces it.

You fight insurgency basically the same way. Not by a flamethrower but by removing what nurtures the fire.
This is how Counter-insurgency works; we don´t kill with violence – we kill with kindness.

Name a country which is ready negotiate with terrorists?
Oh geez, that's a tough one - Israel?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joshua...b_1016892.html

Originally Posted by brinktk

That may have worked in Sri Lanka...but it would not work in Afghanistan or Iraq.

Did the Sri Lankan military ever literally move into the villages, cities, and hamlets of the Tamil territory? Did they ever run patrols out of these outposts that were set up within the very epicenters of the population? Were counter Tamil forces organized and utilized to give a separate but legitimate force the Tamils could rely on that was backed by the Sri Lankan government? How was the civilian population denied to the insurgents before the reign of terror began?

Well, the Sri Lankan military is trained and fought guerilla warfare, jungle warfare, urban warfare, amphibious warfare, asymmetric warfare, conventional warfare, unconventional warfare, counter insurgency and counterterrorism....anything you name it. Our army was trained mainly by the US Army War College and by the Royal Military Academy. Thus whatever type of warfare the NATO led forces are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq today was happening in Sri Lanka in the early 90s.

The Tamil Tigers began as guerrillas in early 80s and by late 2000 they became a semi conventional force with an army, navy and rudimentary air force. However one of their fatal strategic and tactical miscalculations was that, at the last stages of the civil war they tried to resemble and mimic a full conventional force whereas the Sri Lankan military Special Forces fought and resembled that of guerillas. Not to mention the Tigers did survive the world’s fourth largest and powerful Indian army in the late 80s only because they then fought like typical insurgents-***- guerillas opposed to later day’s conventional army.

One of the ground breaking achievements the Sri Lankan military intelligence has done was that we engineered a split within the Tiger organization in 2004 and made one of the LTTE’s top commanders to defect from the terrorist organization with over 6000 Tiger cadres. Since we realized the importance of HUMINT in counterterrorism we temporarily enrolled the entire cadres including the Tiger top commander Karuna as a paramilitary group in the country’s army. Then we indoctrinated the defected cadres with soft power and turned them against the rest of the Tiger organization’s main faction. This reverse tactic of turning the very same terrorists/ insurgents/guerrillas/rebels - whatever you may call them – against the main faction paid off since the tactical military intelligence collection was crucial and it was ready on our table obtained via this engineered defection. This was the “game-changer” in the Sri Lankan civil war’s history that could be extrapolated into al Qaeda and/or ISIS.

Turning tribal and insurgents leaders has been done both in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Anything else we can learn?

As long as kidnappings of Israelis continue, Israel will continue to negotiate with terrorists despite every intention and declaration to the contrary, while Hamas and other groups will continue to invoke the art of kidnapping to achieve status, power, and legitimacy. Few things can bring Hamas real results and front page headlines like a prisoner exchange. As long as the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians continues, and as long as Hamas continues to be applauded for its efforts by many in the Arab and Muslim worlds, terrorism and kidnappings will continue. As Israel struggles to remain united in the face of its enemies, so too will it continue to negotiate with terrorists.

The minute you turn yourself to diplomacy and negotiate with terrorists they know very well that they are being dealt with soft power.

Most of the hardcore Jihadi ideologies are impervious to soft power because the ideology itself promotes and preaches hard power (coerce) and therefore disallows elements of soft power such as diplomacy. Soft power is of no use in such cases.

Previous governments in Sri Lanka did negotiate with Tamil Tigers without any success. During the negotiations the terrorists called for ceasefire in order to rebuild and reinforce themselves and prepared to fight another day. So eventually we learned the lessons hard way and refused to negotiate and finished them off!

Originally Posted by Kesse81

Turning tribal and insurgents leaders has been done both in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Anything else we can learn?

The LTTE and ISIS differ ideologically and objectively, however, as for their modus operandi and tradecraft, they both have some similarities, such as:

• Both LTTE and ISIS leaders strengthened their power through a cult of personality and a series of savage internal purges such as infighting and factional differences.
  
• Both LTTE and ISIS had initial territorial gains, rapid growth and conquests whereby holding that territory as a non-state entity - reliant solely on local support
  
• Both LTTE and ISIS sized and used equipment, weapons and ammunitions from increasingly clobbering and disorganized local armies with whom they fought
  
• Both LTTE and ISIS set up and administered some formidable revenue resources largely form inside and outside sourcing via a de facto state
  
• Both LTTE and ISIS attracted and recruited women and children as part of their army
  
• Both LTTE and ISIS became a threat to regional and global security.

The only lesson any one from outside this conflict can take from it is these style of crackdowns in an counter insurgency would have been Stalin Approved.

And I can go ahead and strongly say that the campaign worked but on a human cost perspective totally failed.

Any unrest under Stalin would never made it to the insurgency stage. At the 1st rumpling of unrest he would have have killed - deported 1/2 the population of the troubled area. He did this this to the Ukrainian's, Chechnya's, Kalmackian's, Crimea Tartars, Siberian Koreans, etc. Depopulating and repopulating entire area's.

This is the root cause for the present day troubles in the Ukraine and Chechnya

Originally Posted by JOC

He did this this to the Ukrainian's, Chechnya's, Kalmackian's, Crimea Tartars, Siberian Koreans, etc. Depopulating and repopulating entire area's.

This is the root cause for the present day troubles in the Ukraine and Chechnya

This is not correct :already BEFORE the communists took power in 1917,the Ukraine had a big Russian minority.

The situation of the Ukraine can be compared to an independant Ireland that's including Ulster,resulting in a revolt by the protestants who are helped by Britain .

Originally Posted by lljadw

This is not correct :already BEFORE the communists took power in 1917,the Ukraine had a big Russian minority.

The situation of the Ukraine can be compared to an independant Ireland that's including Ulster,resulting in a revolt by the protestants who are helped by Britain .

So you are saying the millions of Ukrainians that were killed by Stalin in the 20's and early 30's is a myth? That Russians were not sent in to repopulate the areas that were depopulated by these genocidal actions? This was one of Stalin's most common techniques for dealing with an area that he considered troublesome. Some ethnic groups disappeared altogether as a result of these policies like the Crimean Tartars, the area was wholly replaced by Russians. Forced relocation was major policy for Stalin.