Chinese military aircraft present situation




 
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July 24th, 2005  
niva
 

Topic: Chinese military aircraft present situation


I found this originally in a chinese forum, here is the computer translation by babel. http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr
If you have a reasonable chinese language level, you can go to read the original doc. http://post.baidu.com/f?kz=25683301



Chinese military aircraft present situation

At present the SU fighter aircraft accident which occurs up to the Chinese air force infers, the machine accident is the main reason. This April SU30MKK crash event, the air force declared is the engine failure. Regarding this KANWA slightly brings the question, the twin engine fighter aircraft engine direct synchronize breakdown condition not to appear in the Russian air force SU fighter aircraft accident history. February, 2001 SU27 accident is the lubricating oil centrifugal blower shell bursts, causes outside the lubricating oil steam to release. SU27UBK appears nearly 124 breakdowns in the spatial 33 teachers 6 months also mainly is the mechanical breakdown.

Frequently appears the breakdown regarding SU27 in China the question, the Russia side explanation has two kinds. First is the official way. Su Huo the wave elder brother item in accepts time the KANWA visit according to airplane company chairman indicated that, The new aircraft maintenance aspect has certain difficulties is normal. The unofficial more direct explanation is the Chinese aspect operates, the service method is backward. Relies on Ukraine and the import correlation equipment, creates the service equipment quality not to go through a strategic pass. Latter acknowledgement after warranty period, Chinese SU27 gives rise to a question or problem not necessarily notifies Russia.



Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:23 replies this speech


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The KANWA analysis first is the airplane quality. It is well known, the Russia military airplane production always has since long ago stresses the output, the speed, the target, the quality control unsatisfactory characteristic. This the system which forms in the Soviet time concerns with the entire industry. For example in February, 2001 appears the Su27 accident immediate cause is the lubricating oil centrifugal blower shell bursts, obviously concerns with the quality. Air force 33rd division SU27SK had discovered in the overhaul process 2 exhaust guides root breaks a half situation, discovered to the 52nd machine inspection, the left generator intake pipe appears 25 millimeters transverse cracks. But above SU27UBK completely pays in December, 2000. Obviously, the airplane quality truly has the problem. The KANWA analysis thought this also is a result which rushes a job creates. Pre-combat prepares "based on " the need, China requests the SU series fighter aircraft which Russia provides extremely to be all urgent. KANWA had reported produces AL31F the factory therefore day and night overtime work. SU30MKK first batch 38 in 1999 sign the agreement, in 2000 December pays first batch 10 , afterwards 28 completely pay in 2001 to finish. Collapses in Soviet Union, the aviation industry rereorganizes under present situation, above production speed whether does say regarding today Russia has the excess load the suspicion? Is worth further observing.

Next is the climatic conditions is indeed different with Russia. The Soviet airplane takes to guard against the cold for a long time, the frostproof function. SU27 never exports third world country in the Soviet time. Not in foreign duty experience. Is similar the Chongqing such humid climate in particular, therefore, Russia Su Huo publicizes according to designing bureau's engineer to KANWA emphasized many questions they have not all met. Therefore, the air force 33rd division machine matters production brigade also emphasized regarding question which appears in Chongqing SU27UBK, cannot find any service explanation, therefore only has oneself compiles "SU27 UBK Airplane Moist Season Safeguard" and so on the machine matters service teaching material.


Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:23 replies this speech

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Next, China serviceman quality is low. The majority person does not even understand Russian. Is unable to understand the service teaching material original text. Simultaneously does not observe the system, in the armed force legal system consciousness is light. Once had air force 33rd division repair shop deputy plant chief to rely on " richly to experience" not to tow the airplane according to the stipulation line direction, nearly causes the airplane collision the accident. " has the system not to carry out" ! Is a common failing which the cultural element creates! Taiwan is also same. This is the most main reason which the bilateral air force aviation accident keeps pouring in.

Based on the service difficulty, the pilot quality are low, the SU fighter aircraft the operational capacity which forms in the Chinese air force possibly has suspicion of the exaggeration. The analysis to 2000 which KANWA which later the Chinese army publication will publish the SU30MKK picture carries on to indicate present the SU30 training still concentrated in the basic single plane, the formation holds controls. Attacks the picture to the place only to have two. After in 2000 receives first batch MKK , until 2002 June only then complete test fire all weapons. Round R77 engine has not ignited, defeat rate 50%, at present accident cause factor Russia-China also in investigation.

The SU fighter aircraft must form the true deterrent in China, still had the quite long year.


Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:24 replies this speech

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In April, 1996, SU27 descended in the Yichang base time crash. In August, parks in airport 6 SU27 is raided the typhoon destroys (reason is does not have hangar, only can open-air park). In November the Sichuan some base sky SU27UBK formation flight, the command airplane engine appears the breakdown flameout, the companion plane handles guards against, two machine failures. An only 96 years year, our army loses SU27 fighter plane 9. From this time started, to fly the SU27 pilot to start not to dare to make the flight maneuver.

In November, 1997, a SU27 airborne stalling of engine attaches destroys. Same month, when two SU27 training occurs bumps into, the airplane crashes.

Two years get down, lose SU27SK and UBK fighter plane total 12, sacrifice the pilot 6 people. According to each time 30 million US dollars plans, loses surpasses 3 billion Renminbi. The SU27 pilot trains the funds astonishingly, 6 pilots sacrifice, are priceless, the gold casting loss estimate with difficulty. But affects profoundly is, from that time starts, China's SU27 pilot when flies SU27 and SU30 all has the psychological shadow, because if breaks down when the flight bails out, after falls to the ground also can because does not have finitely protects the airplane receiving place share with all one's strength, but if guarantees the flight completely with all one's strength, in this kind of gambling wrestling -like therefore obstructs front processing, very possibly can like the senior to be same, catastrophic crash. Although afterwards the military commission high level repeated injunctions, the request enhanced the SU27 fighter plane the training level, but looked from the actual situation that, the effect was not certainly satisfying, although solved the pilot "to fear flew" situation, but did not dare in the training to make the movement still was the universal phenomenon. Down to the present, the air force SU27 pilot ascends the sky the training also only is "transfers two", in order to gain the heaven subsidy. But some people saw air force 3rd division SU27 when school flying all flew "very much steadily, is very gentle" with simultaneously appears in airborne "jumped for joy" annihilates 10 to form the extremely sharp contrast. But in 2004 just introduced into the service SU30 new model to fly appears 坠机 the situation to increase in pilot's heart the shadow, was already does not want to let several ten million US dollars fighter planes appear "the loss" in own hand, certainly did not hope own life are seized by the such insignificant accident.


Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:24 replies this speech

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Therefore, calculated we now have SU27 and the SU30 total surpass 160, but the actual war strength level is worth everybody pondering very much. Remembered the before Taiwan person when selected the problem to F16B, discovers surpasses 100 questions, at that time F16 also has had crash the situation in Taiwan, but now after recovery processing, each kind of hidden danger already basically solved. At that time but also in ridiculed on the Taiwan pilot the airplane must worship the continental air command, now is facing the similar question, also has not obtained the fundamental change, pilot's psychological question becomes the hindrance battle efficiency display the most key aspect. Because mainland China pilot's flight time and the training level do not have the Taiwan air force to be strong, but the psychology has like this with difficulty the basic solution problem, therefore the military force regains time Taiwan the essential air supremacy fight, mainland China at present still did not have the superiority. Why slowly doesn't resort to violence, the military commission high level should be able to find out these actual situations. The practical enhancement import fighter plane is suspends under high strength flight security in front of the People's Liberation Army air force a major problem. Certainly also has the spy question.

Causes the ground audience heavy casualty after the Ukraine air force Soviet 27 fighter planes accidents, in fact Chinese People's Liberation Army air force "air force 2nd division", "air force 3rd division" the Soviet 27 fighter planes armies also because fight, develop, teach unceasingly, although each performance is the general staff evaluates "the first-class", but two armies started from last year then to have many internal problems, People's Liberation Army spread "the person many, the matter many, troublesome are many" describes the Soviet 27 armies the diseases.

Once regarded as "the branch of armed services honor", "the entire armed forces pivot man" the People's Liberation Army Soviet 27 fighter planes armies, Spring Festival around carried on the air fight from 2001 with other armies to train front, after actually suffered obsoletely "j7" the fighter plane "tightly nipped 3 minutes", the overall morale then greatly is inferior to.


Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:25 replies this speech

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This year, People's Liberation Army separately carries on "the electronic warfare series joint performance in April to practice", in June implements "the air force cross military region to be mobile", the Soviet 27 fighter planes armies' going out on duty condition appears is unable to satisfy "the complex meteorology" the training to request, moreover cannot in "the truncation sentiment" and "the thunder sentiment" on the effective counter- system Taiwan fighter plane movement. At that time although "air force 2n division" proposed the self-criticism report was implements "the war by the army to teach gathers one", in other words moved the duty to have the possibility was at that time still the pilot which received training to hit, but "air force 2nd division" the war strength symbol request already were not the facts.

To in July, the People's Liberation Army general staff had instructed the Nanjing military region "乙种" the army coordinates the armed police, the militiaman and 备役 the army, carries on the defense series joint performance to the southeast coast to practice. Trains the process to set out the support, unexpectedly was has for more than served 20 years "to j 7" the fighter plane, as well as little partial "j 8 second grades" the fighter plane. Soviet 27 armies 1 has not lifted off, 1 has not gone to sea. "air force 2nd division" the subordinate boss "the air force 7th armed forces", have many cadre to encounter the self-criticism.

It is reported, People's Liberation Army air force Soviet 27 armies in order to must enhance the war strength, nearly is "is relentless" to other army important people, but army's training equipment, trains the cadre and each item of software and hardware facility, actually is unable so multitudinously to satisfy "elite", the entire training flows the road completely to fall into the bottleneck, in the past the indigenous methods of steel-making training plan, for example pasted a cabin with the picture to carry on the flight simulation the method, not only all looked in each Soviet 27 pilots bedrooms obtains, also had including in squadron's in official training room.

In addition, because enters the Soviet 27 armies, all is regarded as by the top layer "elite", therefore in the army each all in "compared to the courage, compared to flies time, compared to the person arteries, compared to the background", the most bodies for the unit commander, all is not willing to spend the time in to carry on the human affairs in the adjustment, but makes the human affairs also hands over by must flies the duty cadre movement.


Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:25 replies this speech

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Reply: Chinese military aircraft present situation

Ties up?  "," air force 3rd division the Soviet 27 fighter planes armies because the recent years fought, develop, teach unceasingly, each performance was the general staff evaluates" the first-class ", but two armies have many internal problems already the fact which is does not struggle, spreads" the person many, the matter many, troublesome are many "describes the Soviet 27 armies the diseases. .

Unit of time type reason

In 1995 air force 3rd division nine group su27sk flew the low altitude aerobat to violate the flight handbook, entered when the somersault highly excessively was low, the flight handbook stipulation was 800m, when this pilot entered highly was 500m, led to changed when touches, catastrophic crash. The value as soon as raises time this pilot as first batch studies for the air force as Russia flies the su27 pilot.

In 1997 air force 2nd division six group su27sk flew at night complex meteorology, the pilot cloud penetration even table breaks down, caused the pilot to have the illusion (world not to divide), has not maintained the aircraft status, the airplane touches crashes, catastrophic crash.

In 2001 air force 19th division55 group su27sk takes off to the land 20 meters time engines lubricating oils centrifugal blower bursts, right initiates the fire, the pilot is anxious, does not have correct handling, the airplane to crash, catastrophic crash. (The su27 single shot is may maintain basic flight)

In 2002 air force 3rd division nine group su30mkk accident quite odd, the pilot for as soon as the leading cadre and the air force su30 seed teacher, this leadership the flight works as the child's play, uses in the su30 outstanding low-altitude performance flight to look at the scenery harnessing machine to a famous scenic spot, the result highly excessively is low, the airplane base has slid from the treetop, the airplane shivers, this leader thought the airplane must crash, immediately parachuting (double ball), finally the airplane harnessed in the situation in nobody which caused the horizontal flight five kilometers only then to crash. This leader suffers military law handling. . .


Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:26 replies this speech

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In November, 1996, the Hainan Lingshui airport naval air force lost two j8-2, the serial number is 81,295, 81,186, the pilot for Wang Fang, Li Ming, successively sacrificed;

In January, 1997, the air force 2nd division Guilin district lost j7, the serial number is unclear;

In May, 1997, Zhuxi air force base because the novice pilot at night trains is not familiar with, causes su-27smk to hit the mountain, pilot Lin Zhi on the scene died;

In August, 1997, the Chongqing 33rd division when guided j8-2 and transported 6 to descend not the strength, caused two airplanes to bump into, when the fortune in the six had the about 20 aerial bombs, machine on 4 dead, the j8-2 pilot parachuting is saved;

After 1998.2.17 some training base j6 trainer takeoffs engine fire to crash, two pilots sacrifice

1998.4.27 Zhejiang Chu chou airport air force 29th division j-7d night-flying training, two machine bumps into crashes, the command airplane (25,106) the pilot parachuting successfully, the companion plane (25,007) the pilot sacrifices

In May, 1998, an Anhui Wuhu air force base serial number was 13 su-27sk because the inspection negligence and pilot's irregular movement, airborne caused the airplane in to disintegrate, pilot Chen Liming died;

1998.9.15 Tianjin Yangcun 81 air shows production brigade j-7eb (10 machine) makes when the low altitude somersault training loses speed crashes, pilot Yang wins major parachuting the defeat to sacrifice

When 1999.2.19 h-6 landing jumps crashes, the pilot sacrifices the situation to be unclear (h-6 is 6 pilots)

1999.3.30 q-5c takes off in the process in front of the drift off the runway counter- buckle to flush, the pilot stochastically sacrifices

In November, 1999, Chengdu military region 3 j7-mg when exercise because of the misguide, causes mutually to use the air-to-air missile attack, the latter three machines explode one after another;

After 2000.3.28 Jiangxi camphor tree airport air force 14th division j-7e airplane because the mechanical breakdown to lose the control to crash, the pilot stochastically sacrifices

2000.9.19 some independent transportation group Y-7 (#3,418) to land time crashes

In August, 2000, Chongqing air force 33rd division su-27ubk because the petroleum pipe line bursts, in the air blast, pilot Wu Xin and instructor pilot Lin Ling died;

2001.1.4 Henan Zhengzhou airport air force 13rd division Y-8 (#31,242, 31,243) because the tail wing ice accretion crash one after another in the landing process, the aircrewman 12 people completely sacrifice, falls into the private residence, creates 6 dead, 2 injured

2001.2.2 Shandong Jinan airport air force 19th division su-27 because the lubricating oil centrifugal blower bursts, outside the lubricating oil steam releases cooks meals, crashes in the landing process. Pilot ejection defeat

2001.3.31 j-7e turbine blade to depart, the airplane crashes, the pilot situation is unclear

2001.4.1 Henan Nanyang airport air force 19th division j-7b (#30,901) to take off in the process to hit the bird, flies vice- production brigade chief to sacrifice

2001.4.1 Hainan Lingshui navy navigation air force 9th division j-8b (81,097) to bump into with the American ep - 3 electronic intelligence aircrafts fall the sea, pilot Major Wang Wei sacrifice

2001.4.111 q-5 (air force 28th division?) fast crashes, the pilot situation is unclear

2001.4.12 is stationed becomes flies the air force third test flight production brigade to j-7m to take off in the process to hit the bird, the catastrophic crash


Author: The dreary autumn wind 2005-7-22 00:27 replies this speech

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2001.6.21 trainer j-7 to hit the bird, the catastrophic crash

2001.7.? air force 7th division j-7b at the Inner Mongolia desert sky accident

In August, 2001, air force 3th division su30mkk when descending puts the landing gear without enough time, causes the airplane landing runway to explode..

On September 27, 2001 morning 10:45, the Chengdu military region air force's 61,723 airplanes crash in the Fushun County long life town honorable village 10 groups of blue mountain ridges beans rocky mountain halfway up the mountainside. The pilot had died, its remains evening 22:30 found on 27th

This does not have an accident including the Su -30 Cangzhou, the Su -27 Ipin has an accident 6 Su-27s which as well as on the Hydantoin typhoon damages .


Author: 222.94.65. * 2005-7-22 00:28 replies this speech
July 24th, 2005  
Rabs
 
 
summary please (sorry lazy)
July 24th, 2005  
Redleg
 
 
That would have been nice...

Babelfish translations from Chinese aren't the best (to say the least...)
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July 25th, 2005  
niva
 
hi, Rabs, there is no summary.
Redleg, which web translation sys is better? Please let me know.

In my language, ie chinese, in term of a soldier's death for mission, we like to say something like stochastically sacrifices, successfully sacrifices, which you can refer back to the english text.

I know it sounds weird in english. Please just recognize that.
July 25th, 2005  
Redleg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by niva
Redleg, which web translation sys is better? Please let me know.
.
I don't think (know if) there's anything better, but it's just that Chinese is a bit hard to translate directly to English for programs like Babelfish..
It's possible to read, but it can sound a bit weird..
August 12th, 2005  
specialasiankid
 
dont try direct translations. doesnt work. its hard to translate between 2 languages. almost impossible to get the same meaning that sounds right.