Bizarre - biblical references on Gunsights!

The Other Guy said:
Extra motivation is the last thing they need.
Click to expand...

Have you seen these nutters?

There is nothing on earth that will balance their views short of a couple of grams of lead behind the ear and if the best weapon for doing this is optics with a couple of obscure bible quotes on it then so be it, in fact if they have better optics available then they can send them out with with the entire bible written on the damn thing and complementary 6 foot cross for all I care.

In the end the fanatics will never change their views and moderates wont care, do I find it a little creepy that they put this on their product, yes. Do I really give a flying rats arse that it might upset the Taliban or Al Qaeda, no.
 
It's not even about the Taliban or any other group it's about Wienstien and MFRF wanting to splash their cause and their name all over the place and stir up controversy. Wienstien can suck a fat baby's butt IMO.
 
It's not so much about the Taliban themselves but little things like these help with their recruiting. Trying to keep the "oh heck, the Taliban were right" to a minimum. I think it does matter what it looks like from the other end, not to keep them happy, but to try to remove legitimacy on their part. The last thing we need is folks who would otherwise not side with the Taliban to side with the Taliban. I think carelessness like these can lead to those circumstances.
As for cancelling the contract, HELL NO. Just need to remove those references for ACOGs being purchased by the government and that's what they did so... it should be a dead story by now. Good equipment is too precious to cancel like this.
Besides, I bet quite a few shooters on our side are even more motivated now with their new "discovery."
 
the_13th_redneck said:
It's not so much about the Taliban themselves but little things like these help with their recruiting. Trying to keep the "oh heck, the Taliban were right" to a minimum. I think it does matter what it looks like from the other end, not to keep them happy, but to try to remove legitimacy on their part. The last thing we need is folks who would otherwise not side with the Taliban to side with the Taliban. I think carelessness like these can lead to those circumstances.
Click to expand...

So our reason for being in Afghanistan is so weak that the locals are prepared to over look the actions and policies of a bunch of whack job religious fanatics to focus on a couple of obscure and in part hidden bible quotes?

If this is the case then I say screw it let them have Al Qaeda and the Taliban and just bomb the place into oblivion from the air, the people that are going to look at this and use it as an excuse to join some terrorist group were always going to do so and those who are enlightened enough to know why these groups are bad will not care.

Perhaps this is just the method needed to find the fringe elements that are feeding these groups.
 
I'm not saying it's that one thing.
I'm saying many incidents like it could. This time it may be very minor but next time we might not be so lucky.
I guess I'm not a big fan of doing unnecessary stupid sh1t.

Hmmm actually you're right. Some good might come from this.
1) Find guys who are on the fence but clearly leaning towards the bad guys.
2) Motivate some of our own troops. The Atheists probably won't care anyway.
 
As I understand, MM refers to the political propaganda capital which will be made of it by our enemies, who have a very ready market for such.
 
Last edited:
the_13th_redneck said:
It's not so much about the Taliban themselves but little things like these help with their recruiting. Trying to keep the "oh heck, the Taliban were right" to a minimum. I think it does matter what it looks like from the other end, not to keep them happy, but to try to remove legitimacy on their part. The last thing we need is folks who would otherwise not side with the Taliban to side with the Taliban. I think carelessness like these can lead to those circumstances.
As for cancelling the contract, HELL NO. Just need to remove those references for ACOGs being purchased by the government and that's what they did so... it should be a dead story by now. Good equipment is too precious to cancel like this.
Besides, I bet quite a few shooters on our side are even more motivated now with their new "discovery."
Click to expand...

Here's my deal. I really do not care if there are references to the Bible, Koran, Torah or whatever hidden in the stock number on my optic. Further I do not care if one of my troops feels the need to worship Yaba Daba by dancing naked around a fire annointing themselves with the blood of a virgin billy goat, or if another worships at the alter of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and will only eat MRE's with a pasta entree at 1300 hrs, and needs to sing thats amore while doing it. As long as the worship does not effect the discipline of my unit.

My butt hurt is that this has been blowen all out of proportion and the Administration and their sock puppets at the Pentagon have abetted it If Weinstien and his MFRF twerps rabble rousers and chit strirers had brought this up through channels it would have been dealt with, but ohhhhh no they run pissin and moanin to the media and cause a chit storm that has no purpose to get their whining azzes out there.

The nut jobs that we are fighting know we are not muslim for the most part, they get it we are infidels, whtas next? No religious material in country????
 
03USMC said:
My butt hurt is that this has been blowen all out of proportion and the Administration and their sock puppets at the Pentagon have abetted it If Weinstien and his MFRF twerps rabble rousers and chit strirers had brought this up through channels it would have been dealt with, but ohhhhh no they run pissin and moanin to the media and cause a chit storm that has no purpose to get their whining azzes out there.
Click to expand...

You speak the truth.
Actually I think the journo might have found out while mingling with the troops. One guy must have said something like, "I love my ACOG, it's f*cking sweet. It's even got a Biblical reference on it." Then he got his story.
I think it was a pretty stupid mistake to make but again it's being politicized well beyond its best before date.
 
Del Boy said:
As I understand, MM refers to the political propaganda capital which will be made of it by our enemies, who have a very ready market for such.
Click to expand...


Yeah Del that's their position. Now I know goat herders in the Mideast are stupid.....but they already know we are infidels.
 
Yeah how obscure it is is largely irrelevant, it is the political propaganda value which will indeed spread to more moderate Muslim's, or potential militants via Al Jazerra etc.
 
The Other Guy said:
Exactly, and the last thing we need to do is give them more reasons to. While adding gasoline to a fire won't change the fact that it's a fire, it will make the fire bigger.
Click to expand...

And if we go around like we are treading on eggshells we will still be sitting there next millennium.

I agree that we should not be going out of our way to upset the populace and by this I mean we should avoid bombing weddings and orphanages but this nonsense about cryptic markings on gun sights is an irrelevance given the over all situation.
 
03USMC said:
Yeah Del that's their position. Now I know goat herders in the Mideast are stupid.....but they already know we are infidels.
Click to expand...


The terrorists/extremists issue isn't that we are infidels, their beef is that we as infidels are making war on Islam. And the absolute worst crime you can commit in a Muslim country is to proselytize. So when you put Christian texts on Christian weapons doesnt that kind of look like "making war on Islam". It Sure as hell does, and I see no need for Trijicom to strengthen our enemies propaganda while having absolutely no upside to us whatsoever.

Remember most normal people in the Middle East/SE Asia are uneducated, in fear of their own religion, and terrified of other people's religion. This is done on purpose by the local governments to keep their population easily mollified. But their is a nasty side effect -something Arab Governments didnt anticipate until recently. Uneducated masses offers protection against political unrest, buts provides succor for those spreading religious unrest.

Playing up to those fears only serves as a recruitment tool for the nutcases. You might see the issue as a minor detail, but the Arabs Don't. Therefore there is absolutely no reason to go the extra mile and prove the enemy right and deliberately antagonize the minds of millions of muslims.

We always tell immigrants to respect our culture when they come here. Well the reverse is true as well. We are guests in their country -guests should respect their hosts culture.

I am also worried about the influance evangelicals/Born Agains have in the military. There are more and more complaints/situations about soldiers being bullied by either their peers or the superiors for not accepting the religious indoctrination within the armed forces, particularly of the evangelical and born again faith which pressure people into joining.
 
Last edited:
mmarsh said:
The terrorists/extremists issue isn't that we are infidels, their beef is that we as infidels are making war on Islam. And the absolute worst crime you can commit in a Muslim country is to proselytize. So when you put Christian texts on Christian weapons doesnt that kind of look like "making war on Islam". It Sure as hell does, and I see no need for Trijicom to strengthen our enemies propaganda while having absolutely no upside to us whatsoever.

Yeah I realize this I hear in every cultural brief have had before deploying to that region, and have the blank covered bibles to prove it.

Your still ignoring the point. Trijicon has been doing this for over 20 years. IT IS NOT SOMETHING THEY DID SOLELY IN RESPONSE TO THESE WARS.

The Military bought the optics COTS. There was no discussion or probably even thought about what made up the stock number.

Remember most normal people in the Middle East/SE Asia are uneducated, in fear of their own religion, and terrified of other people's religion. This is done on purpose by the local governments to keep their population easily mollified. But their is a nasty side effect -something Arab Governments didnt anticipate until recently. Uneducated masses offers protection against political unrest, buts provides succor for those spreading religious unrest.
Uneducated , poverty stricken, ignored yeah okay whatever. Point is that the media has done more along with Wienstien to put this information out there. In a grand standing dumbazz effort for hot stories and publicity.

Playing up to those fears only serves as a recruitment tool for the nutcases. You might see the issue as a minor detail, but the Arabs Don't. Therefore there is absolutely no reason to go the extra mile and prove the enemy right and deliberately antagonize the minds of millions of muslims.

Again Achmed the goat herder already gets we are Infidels....really he gets it...believe me.

We always tell immigrants to respect our culture when they come here. Well the reverse is true as well. We are guests in their country -guests should respect their hosts culture.
Yeah thats why in Saudi the Padres are referred to as Welfare Officers and can't wear their insignia....unless they are Muslim....we get that tooo.

I am also worried about the influance evangelicals/Born Agains have in the military. There are more and more complaints/situations about soldiers being bullied by either their peers or the superiors for not accepting the religious indoctrination within the armed forces, particularly of the
evangelical and born again faith which pressure people into joining


You have Obviously never been in a Platoon of Combat Marines or Soliders when the resident bible thumper starts their sermon. Not a pretty sight but funny.

QUOTE]

Again it could have been handled differently and you and everyone elses panties wouldn't be in such a tight little twist.
Click to expand...
 
Well it looks like Trijicon is giving in to the pressure. That should make the enemy feel better :rolleyes:

Michigan-based Trijicon, Inc., which has a $660 million multi-year contract with the U.S. Marine Corps, said Thursday that the company will stop putting Bible references on all its products for the U.S. military. It will also remove all Scripture references on U.S. military products that have yet to be shipped and provide 100 modification kits to the Pentagon to remove references that are on optical sights already used in the field.
Click to expand...
LINK
 
Last edited:
DTop said:
Well it looks like Trijicon is giving in to the pressure. That should make the enemy feel better :rolleyes:


LINK
Click to expand...

Once Again, the point of this is not to make the enemy feel better, its to deny the enemy the use of a propaganda tool that could be used against us.

I agree this issue is minor, but I see no reason to make the enemies job easier, even in the tinest degree.

I am glad Trijicom relented however.
 
You know MM- you always make your point well, and I have been considering this one; I thought you made sense, and then I thought - well, the enemy emblazon their slogans, religious references, threats and insults upon everything they can. They certainly are not concerned or fearful of offending us - and after all, just what is offensive about christian religious references ? That they are christian? And the references are certainly not as offensive as the bullets being despatched.

We have to rid ourelves of the blackmail of fear, we cannot continue to show fear - the enemy feeds on it.

Is the bullet less welcome when it arrives with christian endorsement , like the old pork-fat bullets?

Anyway - confined to history now.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top