tommy_gunn
Active member
Who makes the Best APC that is land mine protected and the best wheeled armor cars, Will wheeled armor cars be replacing tanks????
APC wheeled armor cars
Lunatik
Active member
APCs will never replace MBTs as they have completely different designs and therefore mission definitions.
APC: Armored Personnel Carrier
MBT: Main Battle Tank
Most APCs aren't built to withstand anything over 12mm, whereas a good tank will easily take an RPG anywhere on its armor or even a 120mm tank round at certain places and still keep moving.
As far as APCs go, my pick is the PARS 8x8. Safely transports a chit load of soldiers in full battle gear and then some. It can be specially modified with various weapons or sensors to suit changing mission requirements. And it looks like it's from the future... :army:
APC: Armored Personnel Carrier
MBT: Main Battle Tank
Most APCs aren't built to withstand anything over 12mm, whereas a good tank will easily take an RPG anywhere on its armor or even a 120mm tank round at certain places and still keep moving.
As far as APCs go, my pick is the PARS 8x8. Safely transports a chit load of soldiers in full battle gear and then some. It can be specially modified with various weapons or sensors to suit changing mission requirements. And it looks like it's from the future... :army:
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The bow of that vehicle looks extremely vulnerable though. Check out the angle and not to mention it's the favored place to shoot against incoming armored threats.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Well it doesn't have to stop a 120mm but still it's got to have the best protection possible.
It appears the Otokar Cobra is of an NBC Recon vehicle variant. it's got a sample scooper and a marker dispensing system. Actually I think it's got a sniffer too.
Great stuff. Looks like it can be controlled from the inside with full automation outside. A solid platform I think!
It appears the Otokar Cobra is of an NBC Recon vehicle variant. it's got a sample scooper and a marker dispensing system. Actually I think it's got a sniffer too.
Great stuff. Looks like it can be controlled from the inside with full automation outside. A solid platform I think!
PzBrig15
Active member
New Equipment
The German Industries presented by a " presentation day" in the Urban Exercises Area " Bonnland" a lot of new Vehicles :
A Dingo 2 Recovery Vehicle :
The new Wiesel 2 Mortar-Systems :
The German -Army ( Bundeswehr) had orderd a lot of these Vehicles.
and a new Armoured Personally Vehicle. The name AMPV
Manufactory by Rheinmetall and KMWEG , the first Manufactory for German Military Equiment.
The German Industries presented by a " presentation day" in the Urban Exercises Area " Bonnland" a lot of new Vehicles :
A Dingo 2 Recovery Vehicle :
The new Wiesel 2 Mortar-Systems :
The German -Army ( Bundeswehr) had orderd a lot of these Vehicles.
and a new Armoured Personally Vehicle. The name AMPV
Manufactory by Rheinmetall and KMWEG , the first Manufactory for German Military Equiment.
AnthonyCole
New Member
i think you are looking for these cars they offer best armored cars amd yes these cars can replace tanks. Mind=blown
KevinTheCynic
Active member
Armoured Cars can be great combat vehicles in their own right but using them to replace tanks is asking for a lot of dead armoured car crews.
As Lunatik said earlier in the thread "The day they roll out an APC that can take a 120mm projectile from a tank and keep moving, let me know."
Using an armoured car to replace a tank is like using a spoon to replace a knife, yeah it can do the job but not particularly well and don't expect it to excel in the task - just like a spoon and a knife are designed for two different tasks, armoured cars and tanks are designed for different tasks and using one to replace the other might work but you'll never get the results you actually need and of course, you'll end up getting a lot of armoured car crews killed for no good reason.
As Lunatik said earlier in the thread "The day they roll out an APC that can take a 120mm projectile from a tank and keep moving, let me know."
Using an armoured car to replace a tank is like using a spoon to replace a knife, yeah it can do the job but not particularly well and don't expect it to excel in the task - just like a spoon and a knife are designed for two different tasks, armoured cars and tanks are designed for different tasks and using one to replace the other might work but you'll never get the results you actually need and of course, you'll end up getting a lot of armoured car crews killed for no good reason.
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BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Let me start of by saying I was never a tanker, I've never been inside one, nor do I want to.
South Africa still run their Olifant MBT which were originally based on an upgraded conversion of the British Centurion tanks.
However, the South African G6 which is basically a 6x6 wheeled 155mm artillery piece which saw a lot of service during the Angolan civil war, which was a lot faster to deploy.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqGivcrdNhw"]G6 Self-Propelled 155mm Howitzer - YouTube[/ame]
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rIw6aXl3RE"]G6-52 155-mm Self-Propelled Gun-Howitzer | Military-Today.com - YouTube[/ame]
KevinTheCynic
Active member
Hi Brit.
Yeah the G6 is a nice bit of kit but you're not playing by the rules!
The G6 is artillery so it sports a 155mm piece and that's gonna smack the crap outta just about any other vehicle in the world! :shock:
However, it's armour is designed to protect the crew from heavy machinegun fire and shell fragments - it won't survive a round from a tank.
A closer analogy would be the Rooikat which as I understand it was designed with anti-armour tasks as a secondary role to its primary recce role. Even though it's better armoured than the G6, it's still not able to stand up to the main gun of an MBT (from memory it's armoured against 23mm AP rounds).
The Rooikat can quite happily deal with most of the tanks in southern Africa because it's typically facing T-54, T-55 and T-62 MBTs and has superior fire control, stabilization and observation devices compared to them.
It's not going to be so happy against a 1980s-90s era Russian MBT though let alone any modern Western MBTs.
Yeah the G6 is a nice bit of kit but you're not playing by the rules!
The G6 is artillery so it sports a 155mm piece and that's gonna smack the crap outta just about any other vehicle in the world! :shock:
However, it's armour is designed to protect the crew from heavy machinegun fire and shell fragments - it won't survive a round from a tank.
A closer analogy would be the Rooikat which as I understand it was designed with anti-armour tasks as a secondary role to its primary recce role. Even though it's better armoured than the G6, it's still not able to stand up to the main gun of an MBT (from memory it's armoured against 23mm AP rounds).
The Rooikat can quite happily deal with most of the tanks in southern Africa because it's typically facing T-54, T-55 and T-62 MBTs and has superior fire control, stabilization and observation devices compared to them.
It's not going to be so happy against a 1980s-90s era Russian MBT though let alone any modern Western MBTs.
Remington 1858
Active member
I have been a tanker and I believe that wheeled armored vehicles will not completely replace tanks anytime soon. Here's why: Once the weight of a vehicle exceeds about twenty long tons wheels no longer provide sufficient flotation to keep the machine from becoming bogged down in mud, sand or snow. In that case the vehicles power is being used to deform the surface on which it's running rather than providing motive power.
There have been big improvements in vehicle technology in recent years that have mitigated some of those problems, but with an upper limit of twenty tons, there is only so much armor and armament that a wheeled vehicle can carry.
Can this be overcome? Maybe, if you use some other material than steel for armor, Or if you can replace the gun with a light weight weapon like a magazine - fed missile launcher.
Wheeled vehicles have their place. Especially since most nations now have something that could be called a road net that permits rapid deployment. But, get off the road, have some rain or snow and it's a different story.
There have been big improvements in vehicle technology in recent years that have mitigated some of those problems, but with an upper limit of twenty tons, there is only so much armor and armament that a wheeled vehicle can carry.
Can this be overcome? Maybe, if you use some other material than steel for armor, Or if you can replace the gun with a light weight weapon like a magazine - fed missile launcher.
Wheeled vehicles have their place. Especially since most nations now have something that could be called a road net that permits rapid deployment. But, get off the road, have some rain or snow and it's a different story.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Didn't the US military constructed a MBT made of kevlar or something similar? It can be ten or fifteen years ago if my memory serves me correctly
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
The M1A1 and M1A2's have a Kevlar liner, as I believe does the French Leclerc.
KevinTheCynic
Active member
Like Monty mentioned, a number of armoured vehicles incorporate ballistic cloth such as Kevlar in their anti-spall linings (to protect the crew and equipment from fragments that can get knocked off the inside of the hull when the vehicle is hit by enemy weapons).
As for making a vehicle out of Kevlar, well, I'm not saying it hasn't been done because I really don't know but I believe it has not been done because it would be impractical to create a combat vehicle protected only by Kevlar.
Kevlar is good for stopping small fragments and other similar sized projectiles but it's not going to stop the high-density penetrators or the shaped-charge effects commonly used in tank rounds.
Ballistic cloth is designed to stretch and/or entangle an incoming projectile to rob it of its energy and therefore reduce its ability to cause damage or injury. To achieve that result against the high-speed anti-armour penetrators currently in use in tank ammo, you'd need an impractically thick mat of Kevlar.
As for making a vehicle out of Kevlar, well, I'm not saying it hasn't been done because I really don't know but I believe it has not been done because it would be impractical to create a combat vehicle protected only by Kevlar.
Kevlar is good for stopping small fragments and other similar sized projectiles but it's not going to stop the high-density penetrators or the shaped-charge effects commonly used in tank rounds.
Ballistic cloth is designed to stretch and/or entangle an incoming projectile to rob it of its energy and therefore reduce its ability to cause damage or injury. To achieve that result against the high-speed anti-armour penetrators currently in use in tank ammo, you'd need an impractically thick mat of Kevlar.
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