American Civil war - Page 2




 
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October 17th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
As was the railways.
Yes,

What else was new about this war? Didn't the first machine gun show up during the war? The artillery had a huge development as well. something that cannot be ignored is the improvement of the health care (medics) and also a huge program to identify the fallen after the war.

I find it amazing how the United States survived the civil war, many other other countries with a similar experience have not. There are different kinds of civil wars and those with a similar experience as the American one have not survived it without a split
October 18th, 2015  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Yes,

What else was new about this war? Didn't the first machine gun show up during the war? The artillery had a huge development as well. something that cannot be ignored is the improvement of the health care (medics) and also a huge program to identify the fallen after the war.

I find it amazing how the United States survived the civil war, many other other countries with a similar experience have not. There are different kinds of civil wars and those with a similar experience as the American one have not survived it without a split
1st combat between Ironclads (USS Monitor vs CSS Virginia), 1st kill by a submarine (CS Army operated H L Hunley vs USS Housatonic), Confederates-1st use of Armored Trains. Possibly 1st sinkings by sea mines, land mines also used, not sure if 1st use. Artillery not much development. Members of a CS Cavalry patrol was 1st killed by a machine gun, by the generally ineffective "Coffee Mill". No evidence the Gatling Gun was actually used in combat. Observation balloons were used, possibly 1st time & one was launched from a barge, so 1st use of an "aircraft carrier". Attempts to down US balloons was 1st anti-aircraft artillery fire.
The War was about a split, it was crushed by force, so if the South couldn't leave before, it certainly couldn't after.
October 18th, 2015  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George
1st combat between Ironclads (USS Monitor vs CSS Virginia), 1st kill by a submarine (CS Army operated H L Hunley vs USS Housatonic), Confederates-1st use of Armored Trains. Possibly 1st sinkings by sea mines, land mines also used, not sure if 1st use. Artillery not much development. Members of a CS Cavalry patrol was 1st killed by a machine gun, by the generally ineffective "Coffee Mill". No evidence the Gatling Gun was actually used in combat. Observation balloons were used, possibly 1st time & one was launched from a barge, so 1st use of an "aircraft carrier". Attempts to down US balloons was 1st anti-aircraft artillery fire.
The War was about a split, it was crushed by force, so if the South couldn't leave before, it certainly couldn't after.
The Battle of Fleurus, on 26 June 1794 was the first use of an observation balloon and it was also shot at so I suspect that it also qualifies as the first use of AA fire.
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October 18th, 2015  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Yes,

What else was new about this war? Didn't the first machine gun show up during the war? The artillery had a huge development as well. something that cannot be ignored is the improvement of the health care (medics) and also a huge program to identify the fallen after the war.

I find it amazing how the United States survived the civil war, many other other countries with a similar experience have not. There are different kinds of civil wars and those with a similar experience as the American one have not survived it without a split
Not quite, the first machine gun, the Maxim gun invented by Hiram Maxim wasnt invented until 1884.

Weapons included J.D. Mill's Coffee Mill Gun. Like the Gatling Gun, the cartridges of Mill's invention were fed by a hand crank, and this is why some people believe that President Lincoln called it "The Coffee Grinder Gun". Other infantry support weapons included the .58 caliber Agar gun with a hopper on top and steel guard, and the Billinghurst Requa Battery which had eight banks of cartridge chambers that were rotated into alignment behind the row of 25 barrels.

Chief of Ordnance, General James Wolfe Ripley was against issuing repeating rifles and rapid-fire weapons to the Union army as he believed it would waste ammunition. Nevertheless, several generals, including General Benjamin Butler and General Winfield Scott Hancock, purchased Gatling Guns.

The Confederate used the hand-cranked single barrel Williams Gun and the Vandenburgh volley gun, a volley gun similar to the French Mitrailleuse.

As an aside, when the first automatic gun was issued to the British Army, senior officers called it ""Damn unsporting!""
October 18th, 2015  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Not quite, the first machine gun, the Maxim gun invented by Hiram Maxim wasnt invented until 1884.

Weapons included J.D. Mill's Coffee Mill Gun. Like the Gatling Gun, the cartridges of Mill's invention were fed by a hand crank, and this is why some people believe that President Lincoln called it "The Coffee Grinder Gun". Other infantry support weapons included the .58 caliber Agar gun with a hopper on top and steel guard, and the Billinghurst Requa Battery which had eight banks of cartridge chambers that were rotated into alignment behind the row of 25 barrels.

Chief of Ordnance, General James Wolfe Ripley was against issuing repeating rifles and rapid-fire weapons to the Union army as he believed it would waste ammunition. Nevertheless, several generals, including General Benjamin Butler and General Winfield Scott Hancock, purchased Gatling Guns.

The Confederate used the hand-cranked single barrel Williams Gun and the Vandenburgh volley gun, a volley gun similar to the French Mitrailleuse.

As an aside, when the first automatic gun was issued to the British Army, senior officers called it ""Damn unsporting!""
The Maxim was the 1st fully automatic machine gun. The Williams Gun has been called by some as the 1st automatic cannon, but the crank only opened & closed the breach, so not really where it just speeded up reloading of non-fixed rounds.
Considering the effort involved in moving ammo by wagon from the nearest railroad to the army's location in the field, I imagine it would have been quite a burden if they had all been equipped with Sharps or the Henry.
October 18th, 2015  
I3BrigPvSk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by George
1st combat between Ironclads (USS Monitor vs CSS Virginia), 1st kill by a submarine (CS Army operated H L Hunley vs USS Housatonic), Confederates-1st use of Armored Trains. Possibly 1st sinkings by sea mines, land mines also used, not sure if 1st use. Artillery not much development. Members of a CS Cavalry patrol was 1st killed by a machine gun, by the generally ineffective "Coffee Mill". No evidence the Gatling Gun was actually used in combat. Observation balloons were used, possibly 1st time & one was launched from a barge, so 1st use of an "aircraft carrier". Attempts to down US balloons was 1st anti-aircraft artillery fire.
The War was about a split, it was crushed by force, so if the South couldn't leave before, it certainly couldn't after.
Damn! I should have remembered USS Monitor when it was designed by a Swede. Isn't the Henley at a museum in New Jersey?
October 18th, 2015  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk
Damn! I should have remembered USS Monitor when it was designed by a Swede. Isn't the Henley at a museum in New Jersey?
Hunley is in restoration at Charleston, S.C. where it sank. Believe USS Cairo was 1st to be sunk by electronic detonated mine
October 19th, 2015  
Remington 1858
 
 
With regard to treatment of the wounded and sick, the Civil War introduced the Letterman Plan, a scheme for the evacuation of soldiers to the appropriate level of treatment as quickly as possible. Previously, the fighting units were responsible for locating their wounded and removing them to the dressing station.
In the Letterman Plan, each echelon evacuates the next lower echelon. In other words, somebody comes for the next treatment level up the line, picks up and takes the wounded and sick to a treatment facility. A patient is moved only to the level of treatment appropriate to the condition. the idea being to keep as many fighters in the line or close to the line as possible and when a man is treated, if he is able, he is returned to unit.
A rather delicate aspect of this treatment plan is triage. When wounded are received at an aid post for example, the least injured are treated first. This is to get a fighter back in the line quickly. That means that the severely wounded or moribund patient is last in line. If it's clear that a soldier is so severely wounded that he will not survive, he is placed aside, shot up with morphine and nature takes it's course.
The pal is named for Dr. Jonathon Letterman, Chief Surgeon of the Army of the Potomac. Another officer who helped with this scheme was Dr Trippler. Famous U.s. Army hospitals are named for these men. This plan is still used today, although with helicopters to evacuate wounded it goes much faster than with horse drawn wagons.
It might not seem revolutionary, but in comparison to how wounded were treated in previous wars, it was pure genius.
October 19th, 2015  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remington 1858
With regard to treatment of the wounded and sick, the Civil War introduced the Letterman Plan, a scheme for the evacuation of soldiers to the appropriate level of treatment as quickly as possible. Previously, the fighting units were responsible for locating their wounded and removing them to the dressing station.
In the Letterman Plan, each echelon evacuates the next lower echelon. In other words, somebody comes for the next treatment level up the line, picks up and takes the wounded and sick to a treatment facility. A patient is moved only to the level of treatment appropriate to the condition. the idea being to keep as many fighters in the line or close to the line as possible and when a man is treated, if he is able, he is returned to unit.
A rather delicate aspect of this treatment plan is triage. When wounded are received at an aid post for example, the least injured are treated first. This is to get a fighter back in the line quickly. That means that the severely wounded or moribund patient is last in line. If it's clear that a soldier is so severely wounded that he will not survive, he is placed aside, shot up with morphine and nature takes it's course.
The pal is named for Dr. Jonathon Letterman, Chief Surgeon of the Army of the Potomac. Another officer who helped with this scheme was Dr Trippler. Famous U.s. Army hospitals are named for these men. This plan is still used today, although with helicopters to evacuate wounded it goes much faster than with horse drawn wagons.
It might not seem revolutionary, but in comparison to how wounded were treated in previous wars, it was pure genius.
When was this supposedly put in effect? As far as I have seen through the War soldiers were on their own, for the most part, on getting to an aid station. If they were lucky a friend would drop out of the line to help the wounded man, though this was frowned upon by the Officers. At the regimental level the drummers would be detailed as stretcher bearers, but they were only a handful in a thousand man regiment.
In the South surgical thread quickly ran out due to the Blockade. Someone realized that horse hair from the tail and mane were long enough to be usefull. They boiled it to make it more pliable and they later noticed a reduction in infections of the wounds, though they had no idea that boiling the hair was sterilizing it.
October 19th, 2015  
Remington 1858
 
 
George: You are correct. Early in the war, the wounded were not well cared for. Letterman first introduced his reforms in the Army of the Potomac in about early 1863. later, he became head of the Union Army medical department and imposed this method throughout the Union forces.
However, a major issue was a shortage of qualified physicians. Most "surgeons" were men who had simply apprenticed themselves to another cutter. There were few real medical school graduates. In addition, germ theory wasn't accepted in the U.S. at that time, although it was known in some places in Europe that disease and infection were caused and spread by invisible microbes.
 


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