17 september 1939 - Page 8




 
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May 27th, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
This moron will not say publicky what he's thinking of you,because he will remain polite.
By all means go for it, freedom of speech is for all of us, mind you i'm not out to sh*t on your lawn because its fun, in your case the fact that you're such a total ignoramus is depressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
But to refresh your"memory",this moron will state the following
1)Britain and France never expected to be obliged to fight:they were thinking that words would be enough to deter Hitler,but Der Fuhrer was not impressed.
Really? Why did they promise to help Poland will all their army then? You basically confirmed that UKand France lied to Poland and thus betrayed it, thanks for conceeding the point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
2)Militarily Britain could not prevent Hitler to a Poland and could not help Poland .
Step one - ship 50.000 soldiers with tanks and the works to France.
Step two - roll into defencless Germany.
Step three - watch the german defence collapse both in Poland and in the West due to complete lack of reserves.

How is that impossible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
3)France could not help Poland because after a few days Poland had,strategically, already lost the war,although the Poles continued the fight valiantly and because France was not ready :that the French had a lot of tanks and artillery,spreaded over the whole of the country,does not mean that they could be ready in a few days .
Jesus man... thats exactly why i called you out as an ignorant moron.

You've just been given the facts, two weeks into the war Poland is succesfully leading an offensive larger than Normandy, three weeks into the war Poland still had more then 700.000 men.

Basically Poland did not lose either strategically or otherwise all the way into 17th, its army was intact, the main facilities were intact, the frontline was concentrated and Germany was stuck on Warsaw and Lwów completely unable to take both cities.

Unless you can provide proof that polish army was broken, routed or encircled (which it was not) or unable to further resist effectively, Poland did not lose untill the 17th when Russia invaded and focked up the rear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
4)If the Polish colonels were neglecting military realities,then ,they were very stupid .
The fock? Poland was the only country in Europe fully aware of the "military realities" 90% of british intel came from Poland, Poland wanted to mobilise weeks in advance but was stopped by France and UK fearing to aggravate Hitler!

Your claims are not only ignorant bollocks they're insulting given that it was Poland who was blowing the horn months in advance completely ignored untill the last day and then betrayed.

Poles gave Brits and French weeks of time by alarming them to Gerrman troop concentration, your points are insulting, ignorant and moronic, based on your own idiotic assumptions and opinions born out of arrogance and lack of any knowledge whatosever, its like discussing physics with an ape.

Next thing you'll say its Polands fault that French didnt attack and Brits didnt ship to France earlier.
May 27th, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
1) to lend all support in their power:they did lend all support in their power,it was neglectable,because the support available was neglectable.
Please please just stop writing.

Are you telling me that the French army of 500.000 men with over 1000 tanks, over 3000 guns and over 300 armored cars could not take on 160.000 men with 200 WWI era cannons and rifles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
4)If the Poles were thinking that,in 1945,Britain and the USA,better the USA,Britain was unable to do anything,would start a new war to roll-back the SU,then,they were not naive,but stupid .Roosevelt,nor Truman cared about Poland,only about the votes of the ethnic Poles in the USA.Poland was not the navel of the world and the world had no obligations to Poland .
Are you some neo-nazi sh*thead? You sound like people from stormfront and axis forums.

Poland made cracking the Enigma possible, Poland lent support during BoB that was so significant it probably saved UK, Poland was responsible for handing over V-2 technology to the West, Poland gave UK and France a year more to prepare for 1941 by inflicting such losses on Wechrmacht in 1939.

The West sure as f*ck had lots of obligations to Poland, which in the end didnt change anything, just like it was betrayed in 1939 Poland got sold in 1945.

Also i like how you ignore where Brits didnt allow Polish troops on the victory parade after polish pilots saved Britain and polish mathematicians allowed Enigma to be cracked and Blechley park to work by providing the punch plates technology.
May 27th, 2010  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
By all means go for it, freedom of speech is for all of us, mind you i'm not out to sh*t on your lawn because its fun, in your case the fact that you're such a total ignoramus is depressing.

Really? Why did they promise to help Poland will all their army then? You basically confirmed that UKand France lied to Poland and thus betrayed it, thanks for conceeding the point.

Step one - ship 50.000 soldiers with tanks and the works to France.
Step two - roll into defencless Germany.
Step three - watch the german defence collapse both in Poland and in the West due to complete lack of reserves.

How is that impossible?

Jesus man... thats exactly why i called you out as an ignorant moron.

You've just been given the facts, two weeks into the war Poland is succesfully leading an offensive larger than Normandy, three weeks into the war Poland still had more then 700.000 men.

Basically Poland did not lose either strategically or otherwise all the way into 17th, its army was intact, the main facilities were intact, the frontline was concentrated and Germany was stuck on Warsaw and Lwów completely unable to take both cities.

Unless you can provide proof that polish army was broken, routed or encircled (which it was not) or unable to further resist effectively, Poland did not lose untill the 17th when Russia invaded and focked up the rear.

The fock? Poland was the only country in Europe fully aware of the "military realities" 90% of british intel came from Poland, Poland wanted to mobilise weeks in advance but was stopped by France and UK fearing to aggravate Hitler!

Your claims are not only ignorant bollocks they're insulting given that it was Poland who was blowing the horn months in advance completely ignored untill the last day and then betrayed.

Poles gave Brits and French weeks of time by alarming them to Gerrman troop concentration, your points are insulting, ignorant and moronic, based on your own idiotic assumptions and opinions born out of arrogance and lack of any knowledge whatosever, its like discussing physics with an ape.

Next thing you'll say its Polands fault that French didnt attack and Brits didnt ship to France earlier.
1)I will not say what I am thinking of you,because I will not lower myself to your level.
2) Britain had no 50000 men with tanks available and it would take weeks to transfer them to the front .
3)Poland was not leading an offensive larger than Normandy:your chauvinism is ridiculous.
4)About Poland having 700000 men:Hermany had still millions in 1945
5)On 15 th september,Germany was already transferring troops to the West.
6)military realities means that France was more than 1000 km remote from Poland.
7)you have not any knowledge of WWII .
8)you have only a big knowledge of terms of abuse,a substitute for your ignorance .
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May 27th, 2010  
lljadw
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Please please just stop writing.

Are you telling me that the French army of 500.000 men with over 1000 tanks, over 3000 guns and over 300 armored cars could not take on 160.000 men with 200 WWI era cannons and rifles?


Are you some neo-nazi sh*thead? You sound like people from stormfront and axis forums.

Poland made cracking the Enigma possible, Poland lent support during BoB that was so significant it probably saved UK, Poland was responsible for handing over V-2 technology to the West, Poland gave UK and France a year more to prepare for 1941 by inflicting such losses on Wechrmacht in 1939.

The West sure as f*ck had lots of obligations to Poland, which in the end didnt change anything, just like it was betrayed in 1939 Poland got sold in 1945.

Also i like how you ignore where Brits didnt allow Polish troops on the victory parade after polish pilots saved Britain and polish mathematicians allowed Enigma to be cracked and Blechley park to work by providing the punch plates technology.
1) because you are an ignoramus ,not willing to understand the difference berween 500000 men spreaded over France and the possible available offensive strenght
2) that Poland saved Britain in the BOB :you are even more stupid than I thought.
3)inflicting such losses on the Wehrmachr? :50000 men .
4)the V2 was totally neglectable and only a waste of money .
5) why should Polish troops be allowed on the Victory parade ? Were the French allowed.It should only give troubles with the (puppet) government in Poland :the Polish troops were troops without country and without government .
May 27th, 2010  
Naddođur
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
1) because you are an ignoramus ,not willing to understand the difference berween 500000 men spreaded over France and the possible available offensive strenght
2) that Poland saved Britain in the BOB :you are even more stupid than I thought.
3)inflicting such losses on the Wehrmachr? :50000 men .
4)the V2 was totally neglectable and only a waste of money .
5) why should Polish troops be allowed on the Victory parade ? Were the French allowed.It should only give troubles with the (puppet) government in Poland :the Polish troops were troops without country and without government .
It is generally agreed that the single most important factor that could have lead to British defeat was the shortage of pilots. As the result, the British were forced to rely on their allies to fill this gap, and Polish pilots, with their excellent pre-war training and experience from two campaigns performed beautifully in that role. In terms of numbers, in the crucial days of September 1940, every one in eight pilots of the Fighter Command was a Pole, and 303 Squadron's contribution was nothing short of amazing. Hence the opinion of Sir Hugh Dowding

”Had it not been for the magnificent material contributed by the Polish squadrons and their unsurpassed gallantry, I hesitate to say that the outcome of battle would have been the same”

Only two nations were not part of the victory parade: Poland and Yugoslavia.
May 27th, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
1
2) Britain had no 50000 men with tanks available and it would take weeks to transfer them to the front .
To be specific, UK had 62.000 professional soldiers grouped in six infantry divisions along with four motorised brigades and separate tank battalions, the immidiate number of tanks available in UK as of Sept was 410 in addition it had 24 fighter squadrons, 1900 guns available and could call upon another 100.000 men from homeland security.

Thats over 150.000 men 10 times more tanks, 9 times more guns and 23 times more machineguns then the entire german force arrayed in the West, why werent these men in France months before september?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
3)Poland was not leading an offensive larger than Normandy:your chauvinism is ridiculous.
Actually Poland was leading an offensive that was the third largest offensive in the entire WW2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bzura

Educate yourself.

This offensive led to a massive battle that lasted two weeks, one german infantry division was almost completely destroyed, four others suffered catastrophic losses, 100% of german airforce and fast units had to be used in counterattack and it took a 2:1 numerical superiority by the Germans to finally halt the offensive.

Said offensive was in its most succesfull stage at the time when the French and Brits decided that Poland has lost the war (sic!)

For 2 weeks Germany was unable to draw a single soldier from Poland since it had to use them to contain the two Polish armies.

Now that you've been educated i'm waiting for you to kiss my arse and apologise, mind you the Wiki is innacurate in that it doesnt count Polish reserve forces which raise the number of belligerents by tens of thousands, also it significantly lowers the german forces by not counting the Landwehr divisions, at least 60.000 men.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
4)About Poland having 700000 men:Hermany had still millions in 1945
In 1939 it had only 2.4 milion troops, from this only about 2 milion were combat troops and from these 1.5 were in Poland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
5)On 15 th september,Germany was already transferring troops to the West.
What tank divisions?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
6)military realities means that France was more than 1000 km remote from Poland.
But it was bordering Germanys defencless border no?
May 27th, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
1) because you are an ignoramus ,not willing to understand the difference berween 500000 men spreaded over France and the possible available offensive strenght
Funny you say that because these half a milion french troops were not spread throught France, they were concentrated in the Saar region.

Made it in bold letters for you, as for their offensive strength? They had over 1500 armored vehicles and over 70.000 motorised troops as well as over 300.000 first line infantry against an enemy who had 200 WWI guns, several hundreds old machineguns and mortars and some minefields.

France army in sept 1939 had a massive offensive potential against an enemy who had no defensive capabilities whatsoever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
2) that Poland saved Britain in the BOB :you are even more stupid than I thought.
1/8th fighter pilots were Poles, 13% of all Germans shot down over UK in BoB were shot down by Poles, Poles had experience and training at a period when such pilots were at a premium, yeah Poles saved UK even Brits admitted it repeatedly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
3)inflicting such losses on the Wehrmachr? :50000 men .
480 tanks and 230 armored cars destroyed or severely damaged, thats about 25% of the grand total german mechanized elements for example, the losses in hardware were such that Germans had to delay their invasion of France.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
4)the V2 was totally neglectable and only a waste of money .
Ah your educated guess again captain neo-nazi, V-2 was the gateway to all later rocket technologies and the west only got it because polish Home Army stormed a launching facility and retrieved a complete V-2 to retro-engineer by the allies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
5) why should Polish troops be allowed on the Victory parade ? Were the French allowed.
Yes the French were allowed, French who collaborated with Germany, betrayed Poland and murdered their jewish population were allowed whereas Poland who's pilots saved Britain, who's scientists cracked enigma, who's soldiers stormed Monte Cassino and liberated Holland was not allowed to participate.

You seriously dont see anything wrong with this? I'm starting to suspect you came here from Axis forums or another neonazi site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lljadw
It should only give troubles with the (puppet) government in Poland :the Polish troops were troops without country and without government .
They had a country that was sold out by their allies and a goverment that was betrayed by the same allies, at last they were refused an honor they earned more than anyone except maybe the Russians and you dont see anything wrong with it after all that Poland did contribute towards the final victory of the West and survival of UK?

You sir are either a closet neo-nazi or just a bloody stupid twat.
May 28th, 2010  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Simmons
That is a pretty wide-open question, LeEnfield, but I would imagine that it had something to do with U-boats cutting supply lines between GB and Europe and vice versa. And the British hatred of Germany built with the blitz in 1940 as well. But most of all, I can't see a very stubborn Churchill siting idly by while the rest of Europe came under Nazi control. It is simply something he would not stand for, even if it came down to one last British soldier with a club fighting the last German armed with a pocket knife. As Pink Floyd said on "Dark Side Of the Moon," "...hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way."

Right On. Eye-witness account here:-


Saturday September 7, 1940, 4.14 pm.


Black with death, black with bombers
Heinkels, Dorniers and Junkers, three hundred and forty-eight
Messerschmitt fighters, six hundred and seventeen
.Black with a canopy twenty miles wide
A black block of death, eight hundred square miles of sky
.Bombs on London, twelve hours

Bombs on London, seventy-six nights -
Nights in a row
Killing over forty-three thousand civilians
Unremitting slaughter,
Incessant attack on lives

High explosive compression,
Pulling and pushing.
Sucking out eye-balls,
Ripping off clothes,
Tearing out breath.
Black with death

To crush the spirit of London.


I lost 2 homes in those 76 days - rubble and dust.

As for saving Poland - Britain just didn't have a magic wand available at the time. We just did what we could without question - we stood our ground.

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May 28th, 2010  
FUNeral
 
Please chill out a bit Panzer. Most guys just simply buy nazi/communist propaganda, about Poland being backward, worthless nation of barbarians. They dont give a damn. Every country did some wrong back then. Same goes for Poland I suppose. But in the west allies are seen as heroes, riding on white horse to kill nazi dragon. It reminds me of communist propaganda, before 1989. Same thing happens everywhere, just in different ways. I find it kinda sad.
May 28th, 2010  
Naddođur
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUNeral
Please chill out a bit Panzer. Most guys just simply buy nazi/communist propaganda, about Poland being backward, worthless nation of barbarians. They dont give a damn. Every country did some wrong back then. Same goes for Poland I suppose. But in the west allies are seen as heroes, riding on white horse to kill nazi dragon. It reminds me of communist propaganda, before 1989. Same thing happens everywhere, just in different ways. I find it kinda sad.
The most important features of the Polish contribution to the defeat of Germany are determination and perseverance. Despite the severe defeat in 1939, the Poles formed five more armies, including four in exile: in France in 1939, in the United Kingdom in the summer of 1940 (after the defeat and capitulation of France), and twice in the USSR in 1941. These were the army of Gen. Anders that fought later in the South of Europe, and the one that emerged in 1943 and later fought at the Red Army’s side. The fifth Polish army, created at the end of September of 1939 was the conspiratorial armed force in the occupied territory. For the entire period of the war there also existed the very important “silent front” – the intelligence. Probably up to 2 millions Poles served since September 1st, 1939 to May 8th, 1945 in all the Polish military formations – regular armies, partisan troops and underground forces. In the final stage of war the Polish troops on all the European fronts amounted to some 600 000 soldiers (infantry, armored troops, air force and navy). In the summer of 1944, while commencing regular military struggle against the retreating Germans, the armed underground numbered more than 300 thousands sworn soldiers. It can be concluded that Poland put in the field the fourth greatest Allied army.

"The soul of Poland is indestructible, and she will rise again like rock which may for a spell be submerged by a tidal wave, but which remains a rock."
(WINSTON CHURCHILL, 1.10.1939)