17 september 1939 - Page 10




 
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May 30th, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkenny
If so then why declare war on Germany?
Both Britain and France had a number of opportunities to 'opt-out' of their treaty obligations prior to declaring war but they did not.
They drew a line in the sand, Hitler crossed it. War ensued. This shows all the claims they had 'no intention' of honouring the treaty are bunk.
They declared war but did not engage in combat untill invaded, they refused to fight.

Declarations alone do not change the nature of their treason, if you're in an alliance you fight, France and UK did not untill the fight came to them.
May 30th, 2010  
mkenny
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
They declared war but did not engage in combat untill invaded, they refused to fight.
I think you will find that 'combat' was engaged well before May 10th 1944.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Declarations alone do not change the nature of their treason, if you're in an alliance you fight,
Treason? You certainly are an excitable fellow.
Please quote the promises in the gaurantee given to Poland where a specific act of agression is made in relation to a ground offensive into Germany.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
France and UK did not untill the fight came to them.
I think you are confusing France and The UK with the United States.
May 30th, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkenny
I think you will find that 'combat' was engaged well before May 10th 1944..
Well it was not engaged in Sept 1939, why?




Quote:
Originally Posted by mkenny
Treason? You certainly are an excitable fellow.
Please quote the promises in the gaurantee given to Poland where a specific act of agression is made in relation to a ground offensive into Germany.
Be my guest:

His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power


Similar clause was given by the French,needless to say both countries performed well below their capacity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkenny
I think you are confusing France and The UK with the United States.
Nope, France had mobilised over 700.000 men with 500.000 in the Saar region with more tanks then Germans had machineguns in the West (for every german MG in the West 2.3 French tanks were available).

Yet the French contented themselves with occupying several villages, UK did not send a single tank battalion to France or Poland months prior.

Thats betrayal.
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May 30th, 2010  
mkenny
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Well it was not engaged in Sept 1939, why?
Because real life decisions are not taken as fast as in computer gaming?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Be my guest:

His Majesty's Government would feel themselves bound at once to lend the Polish Government all support in their power

Similar clause was given by the French,needless to say both countries performed well below their capacity.
They stood by their promise to declare war on Germany. A very important decision that had severe repercusions and caused great death and
destruction to both France and the UK.
Please be so kind as to give details of the SPECIFIC military actions promised as per my original request. What you BELIEVE was promised does not count.
May 30th, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkenny
Because real life decisions are not taken as fast as in computer gaming?
Poland was alerting them months in advance, as early as December 1938, Poles were giving UK and France truckloads of data that all pointed to war being inevitable, if the West did not prepare for such a war its through obvious lack of intention to honor any pact made with Poland.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkenny
They stood by their promise to declare war on Germany. A very important decision that had severe repercusions and caused great death and
destruction to both France and the UK.
Please be so kind as to give details of the SPECIFIC military actions promised as per my original request. What you BELIEVE was promised does not count.
The phrase "any and all" is specific enough, UK and France promised to engange with all available forces immidiately.

Word for word, they did not engage with anything but token actions.
May 30th, 2010  
mkenny
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Poland was alerting them months in advance, as early as December 1938, Poles were giving UK and France truckloads of data that all pointed to war being inevitable, if the West did not prepare for such a war its through obvious lack of intention to honor any pact made with Poland.
Germany signaled well in advance her intentions in The East.
Why did Stalin not attack Germany in the summer of 1941?
Japan signaled well in advance her intentions in the Pacific.
Why did the USA not invade Japan in December 1941?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
The phrase "any and all" is specific enough, UK and France promised to engange with all available forces immidiately.

Word for word, they did not engage with anything but token actions.
I still can not see what SPECIFIC actions were promised. Please do a more thorough Google before you get back to me.
May 30th, 2010  
mkenny
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzercracker
Poland was alerting them months in advance, as early as December 1938, Poles were giving UK and France truckloads of data that all pointed to war being inevitable, if the West did not prepare for such a war its through obvious lack of intention to honor any pact made with Poland.
Let us recap.
Pledge given in April 1939.
Military Assistance pact on August 1939
War declared in September 1939..
So within a space of 6 months Britain and France entered the most destructive event in the 20th Century, one that effectively bankrupted them, because they had 'no honour'?
May 31st, 2010  
Naddođur
 
 
I think that the problem is the Polish expectations and the exaggerated capabilities of the French and British.
The French mobilization was not complete until early October and In Britain only 1 in 40 men were mobilized (compared to 1 in 10 in France).

Also the French army was superior to the German in numbers only. It lacked the offensive doctrines, mobilization schemes, and offensive spirit necessary to attack Germany.

The presumption that "something could have been done but wasn't" overlooks the basic fact that France and Britain was ill-equipped to fight Germany even with the majority of German forces engaged in the east

In the Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland.-London, August 25, 1939. ARTICLE I.it says:

Should one of the Contracting Parties become engaged in hostilities with a European Power in consequence of aggression by the latter against that Contracting Party, the other Contracting Party will at once give the Contracting Party engaged in hostilities all the support and assistance in its power”.

That’s what the British had promised.
I would call it a “betrayal of necessity”.
May 31st, 2010  
Panzercracker
 
Then why enter a pact if you're not ready? Why delay polish mobilisation if you're not ready?

Last i checked entering a pact and laying down specific promises means you're ready to fulfill them, not only that but the French lied to Poland outright claiming they're performing an all out assault.
May 31st, 2010  
Naddođur
 
 
Because politics is a dirty game. Far dirtier than war.
And backstabbing is part of the game.