Originally Posted by Bror Jace

That would be hysterical! Still, I would think you need a number of 30mm hits to take out an MBT, so you have to get int position and expose yourself longer to squeeze off an effective burst. And then of course, everyone within 15 miles would know where you were.

Understood.
I thought that a simple burst would be enough to take out an MBT.

Originally Posted by Bror Jace

While a tank such as you envisioned would be entertaining in a videogame, one precision shot from a larger tube makes more in the real world of armored warfare.

All clear so.

Thinking s'more about this in the past week, I wonder how the 30mm shells would do against the SIDE of an MBT as opposed to coming in (mostly) from above (where armor is universally thinner) like they do when fired from an A-10. Still, I bet the angle coming in is very shallow ... rarely more than 25-30 degrees ... so the hits are already more side than top. The angle would, however defeat much of the sloped armor's advantages.

Also, you have to add the plane's velocity to the muzzle velocity of the cannon. The conversion is 1mph = 1.467 feet per second ... so add about 500fps to the 3,500fps published muzzle velocity ... another 15%.

Not sure if either factor is significant ... but they crossed my mind.

Originally Posted by cisco

>150mm are coming, Koreans have an option to build it into their tanks, Americans and Germans are quietly considering a new generation of tanks with a 150mm main gun, Russians too though in their case its more of wishfull thinking.<

Hope Krupp (I think its Rheinmetall now) didn't lose the blueprints for the Big Bertha. Ansd maybe we can mount some 400 mm guns on the ne frigates. The MONARC Project looked quite promising, but still a small Calibre if we want to do it as bigger as better way.

No, the U.S and NATO is not considering a 150mm gun, 140mm was tested in early ninties as part of a joint ETC program that involved U.S, UK, France and Germany. The 120mm will be around for at least the next decade or two due to maingun capabilities.

Originally Posted by 19kilo30K4

Well, the diameter doesn't make much of a difference when talking about penetration VS other tanks. Have you ever seen our service SABOT rounds? It's a hell of a lot smaller than 120mm. When speaking of ammunition penetration VS tanks, the length of the DU penetrator is what's important. As most of you probably know, our APFSDS ammo discards the SABOT "petals" once it leaves the tube, so 120mm, vs 125mm is not as important as you may think. The only rounds we have that take up the full 120mm is the HEAT and the canister. The others (MPAT, MPAT-OR, SABOT) have discarding petals, so the 120mm size is not really even descriptive of the round. The major difference is theirs is rifled for accuracy and ours is fin stabilized. All this talk of increasing sized cannons neglects the fact that we put a 105mm gun on the M1 before the Germans showed us just how accurate the M256 can be. We most certainly have a more diverse array of 105mm ammo (APFSDS, APDS, HEAT, HEP, WP, APERS) and that is especially true since the revival of the 105mm on the Stryker MGS. Our guns are getting bigger? Then why does the newest gun system the Army has only have a 105mm? Because that's all it needs, and that's all it can handle.

As you know Iron Chariot rider that you need energy and mass for target penetration when using KE penetrators, for extended main gun ranges caliber size does matter when encountering modern day armor.

Also just a minor correction, Russians use smoothe bore tubes also.

Oh my God he's back from the dead.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

The 105mm was fine for its time, that time is the 1960s. Today, a 105mm would have a hard time against any real opponent. APFSDS-DU goes a long way to even the match but still, a 105mm just dosent have the abilety to punch a hole in the frront armor of tanks designed from the 1980s and onwards. A Merkava Mk 4 would seriously laugh at a 105mm round, unless someone came out with somthing new in the last year

There is no major diffrence between 125 and 120, the question is the design of the penetrator adn the materials, as well as the length of the gun itself. A 55 calibers long 120 with DU rounds is certinly more lethal than any 125mm i know of.

As far as future guns I am not sure if size is the solution. I hope they field ETC guns in 15 years time. If it takes longer they should look into 140mm as an intrim solution. Loading 140mm rounds would probably require an automated loader which, exept for the Leclerc, most western tanks dont have as a policy...

Do not sell the 105mm short inregards to the MGS system, granted it is not the ultimate vehicle to engage heavies with but for ambush purposes I think that you would find that a 105mm M900A1 round will do some damage at close range engagements.

The Germans went to L55 to get out of the DU business, switched to Tungsten so stretch tube was needed, incase of emergency though L55 can fire NATO projectiles exception being UK projectiles. Rest assured that 120mm will be around for quite awhile, there is no justification for going to a bigger caliber just as it is not warranted for the U.S to switch to L55 gun tubes because of DU projectiles. Auto loaders have been tested in M1 series tanks, the switch will not be too painful.

Will someone please PM me and tell me what happened to my friend Rock45.

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

Oh my God he's back from the dead.

Yes, its been awhile due to being very busy. I was looking for Steven because I have not heard from him in awhile. What sad news to hear.

Originally Posted by Pale Rider

Also just a minor correction, Russians use smoothe bore tubes also.

I'm sorry, I didn't specify. I was more speaking of other 120mm guns such as the L30 on the Challenger. I didn't specify that I meant Russians, but thanks for mentioning it so I could clarify. There's just so many vehicles with 120mm and 125mm weapons on them that maybe the name of this post should have been "2A46 vs M256"

Really there are only a few systems. The russian 125mm, the American 120mm and its clones/veriants, and the british 120mm...You could count the German 120mm L55 as the fourth maybe...