Stanley "Tookie" Williams - what do you think?

Guys, I am not saying that Tookie was a saint or anything! I am just comparing the bloodlust of some ready to start a killing spree on anything that (in their eyes) looks like a gang banger. You talk so high and mighty about how that rat should die and at the same time you walk a thin red line on doing some killing yourself. That is my point!

I am not saying that proven murdering criminals should have a stay in the Marriott. Go ahead take their miserable lifes. But there was plenty of talk here of starting a hunting season on others. No judge, no jury of peers, no defence or lawyers nothing of that.......... just some bullets, a gun and clouded judgement. That is what worries me...

And I don't even want to go into biased juries, bribed juries, juries that what to get it over quickly because they want to go home. You cannot deny that more then one has been executed while innocent! But that is a totally different debat.
 
Mod Edit: We'll decide when the discussions are over.

LoL... I didn't mean I am deciding if this specific debate is over. I meant there is no need to discuss a dead man who wanted to gain attention all of his life
 
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Ted said:
Guys, I am not saying that Tookie was a saint or anything! I am just comparing the bloodlust of some ready to start a killing spree on anything that (in their eyes) looks like a gang banger. You talk so high and mighty about how that rat should die and at the same time you walk a thin red line on doing some killing yourself. That is my point!

I am not saying that proven murdering criminals should have a stay in the Marriott. Go ahead take their miserable lifes. But there was plenty of talk here of starting a hunting season on others. No judge, no jury of peers, no defence or lawyers nothing of that.......... just some bullets, a gun and clouded judgement. That is what worries me...

And I don't even want to go into biased juries, bribed juries, juries that what to get it over quickly because they want to go home. You cannot deny that more then one has been executed while innocent! But that is a totally different debat.
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I'll admit that the talk of "hood rat" hunting may have been over the top to a point. However it was directed at certain elements of society who threatened to riot if Williams was actually executed.And it is perfectly legal to protect yourself. And I know for a fact that LAPD was on Tac-Alert last night and this morning. So the threat was real.
 
King said:
It is good to know that he is dead.
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You haven't posted an introduction King so I may be wrong but I am under the impression from your posts that you are Indian and living in India. So your post begs the question why you feel good that Tookie is dead?

I don't understand the logic of relief knowing a criminal is dead who never threatened my family or countrymen. I feel no sense of relief when I read of the Aussie/Vietnamese man who was executed in Singapore, in fact I felt absolutely nothing.

Were Tookie a known bomb making genius in the employ of JI in Indonesia, yes I would feel a sense of relief for a brief moment. However, Tookie does not fit this bill.
 
My post about "RAT" hunting was done tongue in cheek. There WAS a serious point to it though - when a portion of our society (gangs) has weapons and threaten to take over the streets there IS a very real possibility that another portion of society MAY take up arms to prove that "it just ain't gonna happen".

It was taken seriously enough that Tac Squads were put on alert.
 
I am not a blood thirsty killer. I'm just the strange odd ball of society. I am the creation of a communist society (Cuba), the addictions of a free society (USA), and the honor and discipline of the military (US Army/ Tour in Afghanistan).

Tookie Williams was one evil guy. He killed four people in cold blood. Never admitted what he did. Caused so many problems in the prison system. And lastly, he lied about all the "good" he did.

He said he wanted to stop gangs. Well, he would never give the police any information about the Crips gang that he helped create. While his childern books were written. His Lawyer claimed that Tookie Williams was a mental retard. All he wanted to do was get the hell out of prison.

I HATE CRIMINALS. And Tookie Williams was the worse of the worse. It's good that he's dead. All of his little Gettho Hood Rat followers said that they would riot if he was put to death. Sorry, I've seen what riots can cause. If they wanted to riot. They would be one hunted creature.

Luis (5.56X45MM)

PS - The Police Department (Homestead PD) that I am applying with went on Alpha Bravo alert. That means that half of the police department was working one twelve hour shift while the other half did the same on the next shift. Riots are taken seriously in South Florida.
 
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Just as an addendum. I find it's always damned convenient how convicted murderers start writing children's books and becoming peace preachers after they're convicted.

Isn't it odd that while they're out killing 4-5 people just for kicks while committing armed robbery they arn't writing childen's novels.

Damned odd how no one's sorry until they get caught. If they get away with killing people then it's all peaches and cream; it's only after they come to the realization they're about to get the electric chair do they start trying to be the model citizen. Damned convenient I say.
 
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That is a very good point you've got there WD. It does seem so that while they can makes their own decisions they choose poorly and on death row they turn into teddy bears. I do think that the death sentence does do something with you when you are actually on death row.
Can you say that it works as a deterence once you are convicted?
 
Its an intelligence test of sorts as I see it. Smart people don't have to go to prison before they learn. Those lesser endowed take practical instruction before change is implemented. And even further down the evolutionary ladder are the most difficult to educate, they require the impending inescapable pain of death before they learn the error of their ways. Unfortunately, as with rabid animals, they must be put down in an effort to protect members of a society.

But then I don't support the death penalty owing to flaws in the legal system. I simply understand the point of view of those who do.
 
I agree with you on this one Bulldogg. What we have got here is a fine example of intellectual Darwinism: Only the smartest survive! If you lack the brain and social skill and such a crowded and regulated community, this community will eventually make you extinct! Adapt or perish... as far as I know I thought of this spin off myself.... do you like it?
 
Accept it- yes, like it- no.

For some unshakeable reason I cannot lose my hope for mankind. As often as they prove me wrong for some reason the optimist buried in my soul keeps thinking, maybe, perhaps, one day...
 
Well there is something evolutionary in your last post :) In the end the positive and able will remain.... On the downside is is the there are still so many variables in the equation which can go wrong. I'll try to work those out later on (I'll start once I've lost my job due to being so much on this forum!)
 
bulldogg said:
Were Tookie a known bomb making genius in the employ of JI in Indonesia, yes I would feel a sense of relief for a brief moment. However, Tookie does not fit this bill.
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Williams may not fit your bill. But Williams held sway over a vast number of Thug Bangers. Both inside and Outside of the Prison walls. He got convicted for four murders. Him and God only know who many more he ordered or committed while running the Crips.

Put that together with the lives he took, ruined, and caused to go into downward spirals by funding his operation with the sale of Rock, Heroin, etc. And I consider Tookie and his ilk regardless of what set or gang they represent to be predators on society. And domestic terrorists.

Look at these guys not just Tookie. They hold neighborhoods hostage.Ever try and get a statement at a Gang involved incident.Goes like this.

Officer: Sir what did you see?
Citizen: Nothing
Officer: Well heres my card if you.......
Citizen: Man get the He** away from me. Wanna get me killed.

When people are afraid of being killed or walking down their own streets thats terrorism. May not be a bomb but it serves the same purpose.
 
03 you took me out of context bruv. I meant that for someone who is the citizen of another country a simple criminal would not bother me being executed and wouldn't feel any relief. But if he were a terrorist the country would matter not. Please look at the context of my whole message and if it seems otherwise please let me know. I was questioning why "King" a citizen of India would feel relief at the execution of an American gang banger.
 
I believe Arnie should have given the guy clemency. He did a lot of work while in prison to help people get out of gangs. He also wrote books to get the word out about how bad gangs can be
 
Navybrat88
How much weight should all of the books written by Tookie Williams weigh???

Let's say he wrote 100 books in the time he was imprissoned. Each book caused 10 young people to NOT join a bunch of gang Bangers. (How much does this weigh?).

NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW

More than likely ( by more than one source), Tookie still held sway with the Crips and was able to influence somewhat what crimes they carried out. At no time would Tookie cooperate with authorities to stop the Crips from killing, maiming, hooking young people on drugs, selling drugs to these same kids or causing the death of countless numbers of people from these same drugs. At no time did he cooperate to take ANY of these animals off the street. Every time the question of cooperation arose, Tookie's response was "I ain't no rat!". (How much does this weigh?).

Tookie Williams was responsible for the death of four innocent people who's only crime was that they were in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Tookie's weapon of choice was a 12ga shotgun firing 00 buck shot. (How much does this weigh?)

Tookie Williams was found guilty by a jury of his peers of First Degree Murder - there was absolutely NO doubt in the minds of the jurrors that he was guilty as charged. (How much does this weigh?)

Tookie never (even in the death chamber) admitted his responsibility for these deaths. (How much does this weigh?)

The wives, husbands, sons, daughters and other relatives will forever have the picture of their loved ones lying in a pool of their own blood (dead) because of Tookie Williams' uncontrolled slaughter. (How much does this weigh?)

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WHEN YOU TAKE THE MEASURMENT OF THE GOOD THAT YOU PLACE SO MUCH WEIGHT IN (THE GOOD TOOKIE DID) AND PLACE IT ON THE SCALES OF JUSTICE WITH ALL OF THE HARM HE CAUSED - WHICH WAY DID THE SCALE TIP.......FOR TOOKIE...(OR)...FOR JUSTICE (HIS DEATH)?
 
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