Fined for flying the US flag...
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
And the cure being to enforce laws already on the books, and imprison those, reserving execution for the worst offenders, in Government who break the Law.
Making it so the Rich would not wish to risk being in the Job, or would not want the job very long, along the same lines as the Rich not wishing to risk their lives in the US Military, so more common folk have to make up the Ranks.
If 50 or 100 House Members and a dozen or so US Senators were hung like Saddam, after a fair Trial of course, I believe the Federal Government in the US would straighten right up for a few years.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Not sure sure about hanging politicians, I am not sure it is an offense to be a self serving liar but I am almost convinced that whats needed is a reduction in the power of political parties, it has reached a point (here at least) where politicians have more allegiance to the party than to the constituents that elected them.
One thing I have always been interested in was a theory that rather than elect a government voters elect people to specific positions ie you may want a person from party x to be head of finances but a person from party y to be head of defense and someone from party z to be the nations head, it could lead to some very interesting forms of governance of course it may also create a giant mess.
One thing I have always been interested in was a theory that rather than elect a government voters elect people to specific positions ie you may want a person from party x to be head of finances but a person from party y to be head of defense and someone from party z to be the nations head, it could lead to some very interesting forms of governance of course it may also create a giant mess.
senojekips
Active member
You'd better ask the politicians that question.
In short, the answer is "Greed has destroyed any possible connection between Politics and true Patriotism" In fact it is largely politicians of all persuasions who have reduced "Patriotism" (as they see it) to the last resort of the scoundrel.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
Not sure sure about hanging politicians, I am not sure it is an offense to be a self serving liar but I am almost convinced that whats needed is a reduction in the power of political parties, it has reached a point (here at least) where politicians have more allegiance to the party than to the constituents that elected them.
One thing I have always been interested in was a theory that rather than elect a government voters elect people to specific positions ie you may want a person from party x to be head of finances but a person from party y to be head of defense and someone from party z to be the nations head, it could lead to some very interesting forms of governance of course it may also create a giant mess.
Not being completely honset got President Clinton Impeached, and saying things which are not completely true in time of war, which in turn cause harm to the United States Military, is against the Law under Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 in § 2388 dealing with Activities affecting armed forces during war, which is what I would use to clean house, seeing how Taxes pay for the US Military, and stealing from the Government, or other illegal activites, and saying one did not steal or such would cause more Tax Dollars to be spent, causes the Military to suffer.
Missileer
Active member
Since the United States is not in a declared war and hasn't been since the end of WWII, how would you suggest prosecuting someone under laws covering wartime offenses.
President Clinton was not charged with high crimes and misdemeanors, he was impeached for lying to a Federal Judge while under oath. Being the CIC of the US armed forces, he was charged with using the military as he deems necessary against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. The President sets and manages foreign policy, not Congress.
Taxes are used for all US Government expenditures, from Federal salaries to pork projects in Counties and States of Representatives and Senators. Distinguishing where taxes are wasted or where they are necessary is a noble effort but, by now, is impossible.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
I have no idea what you are Posting about with regard to President Clinton. And as per Title 50 United States Code, War and National Defense, in Chapter 33 which deals with the War Powers Act, in the absense of a Declearation of War, there needs to be 1. specific statutory authorization, or 2. a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces. If you truly believe the US Congress to be without power in the United States of America, sit back, and watch what is going to happen to the President.
mmarsh
Active member
Trust me, I know Donald Trump on a personal level, the only loyalty he has is to Donald Trump.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
The Donald is a master of self promotion, I look forward to Trump telling the Judge in the case that he is Fired for not doing what Trump would like.
Missileer
Active member
Then just what did you mean when you stated the above? It sure sounds like you were inferring President Clinton was saying something in time of war that endangered the military. Your words, not mine.
I'm not very clear on this part of your post either. Why and how would you clean house again.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
"Then just what did you mean when you stated the above? It sure sounds like you were inferring President Clinton was saying something in time of war that endangered the military. Your words, not mine".
Sorry for any confusion.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Not sure sure about hanging politicians, I am not sure it is an offense to be a self serving liar but I am almost convinced that whats needed is a reduction in the power of political parties, it has reached a point (here at least) where politicians have more allegiance to the party than to the constituents that elected them.
One thing I have always been interested in was a theory that rather than elect a government voters elect people to specific positions ie you may want a person from party x to be head of finances but a person from party y to be head of defense and someone from party z to be the nations head, it could lead to some very interesting forms of governance of course it may also create a giant mess. :smile:
Not being completely honset got President Clinton Impeached, and saying things which are not completely true in time of war, which in turn cause harm to the United States Military, is against the Law under Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 in § 2388 dealing with Activities affecting armed forces during war, which is what I would use to clean house, seeing how Taxes pay for the US Military, and stealing from the Government, or other illegal activites, and saying one did not steal or such would cause more Tax Dollars to be spent, causes the Military to suffer.
From MontyB:
From my response:
It may have read better if I would have started a new sentence before Posting "and saying things which are not completely true in time of war, which in turn cause harm to the United States Military, is against the Law under Title 18 Part I Chapter 115 in § 2388 dealing with Activities affecting armed forces during war."
In response to this Post from MontyB
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
But this is a big part of the problem now in that the people we are given to "elect" no longer have any real relationship to the people they represent.
To be a politician these days you have to have millions in the bank, have the backing of major companies, had a professional career as a lawyer, doctor, financier or politician now seriously what percentage of the community do they truely represent and how many of those "career's" actually rate on a list of the respected and trusted?
Basically you have to go back to 1960s and before to find a time when the majority actually respected the profession and that was because it was a time when money mattered less than a persons reputation.
As for your Post about President Clinton and his Impeachment....
Checking the United States Constitution on the matter.....
Article II
Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.
If one tosses out High Crimes and Misdemeanors, as I read the Constitution, one is left with Treason and or Bribery.
As for the other part of your Post dealing with the Powers of the Presidency....
Such is the difference between Offense and Defense when dealing with the United States Military and Constitutional Powers.
As far as the Presidents Oath of Office
While the Oath of Enlistment into the United States Military as per Title 10 Subtitle A - General Military Law, PART II - Personnel, CHAPTER 31 - Enlistments, Section 502 reads....
While the Oath of Office for the United States Congress reads.....
I'll also point out that the US Congress, as a co-equal branch of Federal Government, the US House has a House Committee on Foreign Affairs and and the Senate has a U.S. Senate Committee on Foreign Relations.
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Mr KillKill
Active member
:read: If you thought Donald Trump getting fined for flying an American flag that violates city is a case of political correctness gone wrong, try this one.
It might also be noted that The Big Day Out concert is on the day befor Australia Day, when we are reminded of what it is to be an Australian
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/bdo-flag-ban-stupid-says-pm/2007/01/22/1169330795860.html
Prime Minister John Howard has labelled as stupid and offensive a push to prevent Australian flags being taken into a youth music festival in Sydney.
Organisers of the Sydney Big Day Out (BDO) have asked fans to leave Australian flags, and flag bandannas, at home because of fears some people could use them to incite ethnic violence.
They today denied reports they had banned the use of flags at the event, saying they were "simply discouraging its use for anti-social purposes''.
The BDO will be held on Thursday at the Sydney showground at Olympic Park.
Mr Howard, who is back on deck today after summer holidays, said most Australians would be offended by the idea as well.
"The proposition that the display of the Australian flag should ever be banned anywhere in Australia is offensive and it will be to millions of Australians,'' he told reporters.
"The reason given at the time was quite unacceptable. They're running their own political agenda but because of public pressure, they're now backing down.''
Event organiser Ken West was quoted as saying fans' behaviour last year in the wake of the Cronulla riots and the recent ethnic violence at the Australian Open tennis tournament had forced his hand.
But Mr Howard said the Cronulla riots weren't the fault of the flag.
"Flags don't have legs and arm, if anyone was breaking the law at Cronulla, or breaks the law at any time in the future, they should be dealt with by the authorities,'' he said.
"This event is on property owned by the NSW government, so the NSW government has the power to make absolutely certain that this stupid ban does not in any way get implemented.''
NSW Premier Morris Iemma and the RSL also condemned the decision to ban the flag, describing it as "outrageous" and "unbelievable".
BDO organisers issued a statement this morning saying the flag was not banned, but they said they did not want concert-goers taking it into the event.
"We are not banning the Australian flag but are simply discouraging its use for anti-social purposes at the Big Day Out," the statement said.
RSL national president Bill Crews said he would back the concert being cancelled if the flag ban continued.
"We'd certainly support that approach if they don't want to change their mind on the banning of the flag," he told Nine.
"This is an incredible decision that I hope organisers will quickly change. It's an unbelievable thing that you ban Australia's national symbol at any event in Australia."
BDO organisers said while they intended no disrespect to the flag, the Sydney concert was not an Australia Day event and there was no need for the flag to be waved there.
"Our only intention in discouraging this activity at the Big Day Out is to ensure that our patrons are not subjected to this aggressive behaviour," they said.
"With all this in mind and the aim to create a happy, peaceful MUSICAL event, organisers would like to request that fans please leave their flags at home."
The event tours six cities in Australia and New Zealand but the ban will only affect Sydney, where the festival has been shifted to the day before its usual Australia Day date to avoid nationalistic overtones.
Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd said he agreed with Prime Minister John Howard that the organisers should overturn their decision.
"I just think this is excessive and wrong, and doubly wrong in the lead up to Australia Day," he told the Nine Network.
Mr Rudd said the Big Day Out was terrific event, but organisers should not be blaming the flag.
The Sydney Chamber of Commerce also weighed into the debate, saying the flag ban jeopardised Sydney's reputation as an events host.
Director of the chamber Patricia Forsythe said such a ban gave an impression that major events in Sydney had been hijacked by gangs, and could damage the local economy.
"Major events such as the Big Day Out generate millions of dollars and thousands of jobs for the Sydney economy," Ms Forsythe said.
"Sydney can't afford the perception that our major events ... (are) threatened by extremists and thugs."
Ms Forsythe said boosting security numbers at events like the Big Day Out would be a better way to combat any trouble.
It might also be noted that The Big Day Out concert is on the day befor Australia Day, when we are reminded of what it is to be an Australian
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/bdo-flag-ban-stupid-says-pm/2007/01/22/1169330795860.html
Prime Minister John Howard has labelled as stupid and offensive a push to prevent Australian flags being taken into a youth music festival in Sydney.
Organisers of the Sydney Big Day Out (BDO) have asked fans to leave Australian flags, and flag bandannas, at home because of fears some people could use them to incite ethnic violence.
They today denied reports they had banned the use of flags at the event, saying they were "simply discouraging its use for anti-social purposes''.
The BDO will be held on Thursday at the Sydney showground at Olympic Park.
Mr Howard, who is back on deck today after summer holidays, said most Australians would be offended by the idea as well.
"The proposition that the display of the Australian flag should ever be banned anywhere in Australia is offensive and it will be to millions of Australians,'' he told reporters.
"The reason given at the time was quite unacceptable. They're running their own political agenda but because of public pressure, they're now backing down.''
Event organiser Ken West was quoted as saying fans' behaviour last year in the wake of the Cronulla riots and the recent ethnic violence at the Australian Open tennis tournament had forced his hand.
But Mr Howard said the Cronulla riots weren't the fault of the flag.
"Flags don't have legs and arm, if anyone was breaking the law at Cronulla, or breaks the law at any time in the future, they should be dealt with by the authorities,'' he said.
"This event is on property owned by the NSW government, so the NSW government has the power to make absolutely certain that this stupid ban does not in any way get implemented.''
NSW Premier Morris Iemma and the RSL also condemned the decision to ban the flag, describing it as "outrageous" and "unbelievable".
BDO organisers issued a statement this morning saying the flag was not banned, but they said they did not want concert-goers taking it into the event.
"We are not banning the Australian flag but are simply discouraging its use for anti-social purposes at the Big Day Out," the statement said.
RSL national president Bill Crews said he would back the concert being cancelled if the flag ban continued.
"We'd certainly support that approach if they don't want to change their mind on the banning of the flag," he told Nine.
"This is an incredible decision that I hope organisers will quickly change. It's an unbelievable thing that you ban Australia's national symbol at any event in Australia."
BDO organisers said while they intended no disrespect to the flag, the Sydney concert was not an Australia Day event and there was no need for the flag to be waved there.
"Our only intention in discouraging this activity at the Big Day Out is to ensure that our patrons are not subjected to this aggressive behaviour," they said.
"With all this in mind and the aim to create a happy, peaceful MUSICAL event, organisers would like to request that fans please leave their flags at home."
The event tours six cities in Australia and New Zealand but the ban will only affect Sydney, where the festival has been shifted to the day before its usual Australia Day date to avoid nationalistic overtones.
Opposition Leader Kevin Rudd said he agreed with Prime Minister John Howard that the organisers should overturn their decision.
"I just think this is excessive and wrong, and doubly wrong in the lead up to Australia Day," he told the Nine Network.
Mr Rudd said the Big Day Out was terrific event, but organisers should not be blaming the flag.
The Sydney Chamber of Commerce also weighed into the debate, saying the flag ban jeopardised Sydney's reputation as an events host.
Director of the chamber Patricia Forsythe said such a ban gave an impression that major events in Sydney had been hijacked by gangs, and could damage the local economy.
"Major events such as the Big Day Out generate millions of dollars and thousands of jobs for the Sydney economy," Ms Forsythe said.
"Sydney can't afford the perception that our major events ... (are) threatened by extremists and thugs."
Ms Forsythe said boosting security numbers at events like the Big Day Out would be a better way to combat any trouble.
Donkey
Active member
You're delusional and by the way you must prove he lied which no one really can because well the whole freaking world thought the same way....
Let's not also forget we knew WMD where there because well we sold them to Saddam awhile back....Now the question is where did they ago????
I really think people need to find better things to occupy their time I mean do they really have so little to do that they can make a big deal out of a flag????
Seriously talk about wasted time on silly issues that effect nothing more then the PR of whoever is involved...
Sigma Six says WASTE
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Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
I'm delusional? Would that make you a Medical Doctor out of the same mold as Bill Frist? Or are you a Lawyer now... I'd like to point out that the finding of "Truth" or "Guilt or Innocence" is what a Trial is for.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Yes I am have no idea how they came up with that idea but that one just seemed to be ludicrous.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Don't like the flag? Move to a different country.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
Yes but try and find one without a Flag, hell they all have Flags, and in some countries around the World not waving one may get you killed.
Donkey
Active member
Right you are correct however we all now that loop holes can be found and one can get out of "trouble" even when they did in fact break a law which is not necessarily a bad thing all together in the grand scheme of things....
Basically it boils down to who has the better lawyer (could be Joe V State and if Joe's lawyer is better the the DA well point proven)
This is all off topic and probably best left to a PM so I am going to stop now before this turns into flame...
Oh and one other thing didn't know I had to be a MD to use the term delusional in reference to a person I mean I could have just taken a psych 101 class
On topic....
I don't care how big the flag is you shouldn't be fined for flying it....Unless it is going to cause undue harm to someone....Like if it was blocking line of sight for traffic....
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senojekips
Active member
I support the above without exception.
This also applies to the "arty crafty's" who think they have a "better" design, or that one's flag should be changed for whatever reason.
Gator
U of B and B Alumnus
Hey now, we change our Flag when new States are added.
President Bush is still in the White House.
Talk like yours could cause your Nation to become the 51st State.... tell me do you have much Oil?