The Zimmerman Note




 
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October 9th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 

Topic: The Zimmerman Note


The most deciding factor in the United States decision to enter World War I was the Zimmerman note. The text of the note translates as follows:

Quote:
19 January, 1917:
The Zimmerman Note
to the German Minister to Mexico

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Berlin, January 19, 1917

On the first of February we intend to begin submarine warfare unrestricted. In spite of this, it is our intention to endeavor to keep neutral the United States of America.

If this attempt is not successful, we propose an alliance on the following basis with Mexico: That we shall make war together and together make peace. We shall give general financial support, and it is understood that Mexico is to reconquer the lost territory in New Mexico, Texas, and Arizona. The details are left to you for settlement....

You are instructed to inform the President of Mexico of the above in the greatest confidence as soon as it is certain that there will be an outbreak of war with the United States and suggest that the President of Mexico, on his own initiative, should communicate with Japan suggesting adherence at once to this plan; at the same time, offer to mediate between Germany and Japan.

Please call to the attention of the President of Mexico that the employment of ruthless submarine warfare now promises to compel England to make peace in a few months.

Zimmerman
(German Secretary of State)
This little thing enraged Americans and was the biggest reason that they decided, "To hell with isolationism, lets kick Germany's butt!" but there have been serious questions about whether it was authentic. There are some who believe that it was a pure fabrication on the part of the British in a desperate attempt to draw the United States into the Great War. That theory is given little credit by historians and I'm not completely certain its a valid historical theory. I do, however, fail to comprehend what Germany had to gain from an alliance with Mexico. What could the people down there have done for Deutschland?? Moral support. Sure as hell weren't getting any troops across that ocean to try and help out. British Fleet woulda never let that happen.
October 9th, 2004  
Airborne
 
Redirect American troops to Southwest America instead of Southwest Europe.

A important question of which I'm ignorant in; what did Mexico do after America declared war?
October 18th, 2004  
redcoat
 
 

Topic: Re: The Zimmerman Note


Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

This little thing enraged Americans and was the biggest reason that they decided, "To h**l with isolationism, lets kick Germany's butt!" but there have been serious questions about whether it was authentic. There are some who believe that it was a pure fabrication on the part of the British in a desperate attempt to draw the United States into the Great War. That theory is given little credit by historians and I'm not completely certain its a valid historical theory.
The the idea it was a British fabrication is total nonsense.
The German Foreign Minister Dr Arthur Zimmermann actually confirmed the authenticity of the telegram in a press conference with the US press at the time it came to light.

Why did the Germans do it ???

Because they knew that when they started up unrestricted submarine warfare again,( which they planned to do) it would bring the USA into the war on the side of Britain and France.
The idea of encouraging Mexico to attack the USA, was an effort to buy them time enough to bring Britain to its knees by the submarine war.

While it might seem that an attack on the USA would quickly led to total defeat for Mexico, in fact at the start of the war it would have been the US army which would have been at a grave disadvantage. For due to the civil war it had been fighting, Mexico had a powerful army, while the US army was tiny.
So in the short term at least Mexico would have an excellent chance of causing the US to devote all its attention to the border dispute.
The fact that Mexico would have been overwelmed by the US in the long run was of no concern to the Germans at all.
Fortunately for Mexico its leaders knew this as well, so its was 'Thanks, but no thanks'
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October 18th, 2004  
Darcia
 
....basicly what we are doing with mexico today...


Plus think about it why would the British want to fake such a letter, They knew that if they did and it came to light they had America may go and kick thier butts.(agian)
October 19th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
My main point is that it was a stupid move and probably unnecessary. There was no guarantee that the USA would have entered the war without such a direct provocation ... and if they had it would have taken considerably longer to get the USA moving. They may have been too late. France and the UK had had enough ... Germany had just a little more to give but not much.

The bit about the Zimmerman Note being a contrivance of the UK falls into the category of historical revisionism. Much like the people gullible enough to believe George W Bush ordered the 9/11 terrorist strikes. The major difference is that it makes some sense on the UK's part but very little sense on the Germans part. It is that fact that gives the historical revisionist theory seeming credibility. I don't believe in it at all. It is my belief that Zimmerman was a tard and made an incredibly bad move.
October 19th, 2004  
Darcia
 
That or if you think about it he may have made a pretty smart move...sending a note that got america involved in the war causing Germany to fall...making way fore a second try for Germany later on which they did even better....Naw
November 29th, 2004  
airmanpatroler
 
 
That might even be a British Fabrication
November 29th, 2004  
redcoat
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by airmanpatroler
That might even be a British Fabrication
I know we Brits have a reputation for being sneaky, but getting the German Foreign Minister to go along with it, would be asking a bit much even for 007
The German government admitted the note was genuine. How much more evidence do you need before you accept the fact .
November 29th, 2004  
03USMC
 
 
As has been noted the Kaiser wanted to keep US Forces occupied with Mexico and off the continent. And had been shipping arms to the Mexican Goverment who was involved. In one of their many revolutions.

Also the fact that Villia had attacked the garrison at Columbus New Mexico in 1916 which kicked of Pershings Punitive Expedition. Made the threat of a German supported border war very real.
November 29th, 2004  
Damien435
 
 
Why? Why is it that everyone thinks that we American's set ourselves up to look like the victims so we can claim to be righteous when we go to war? I am sick of hearing that Pearl Harbor was a set up by Roosevelt to get the American Public so enraged that we would go to war, I am sick of people saying that 9/11 was a set up by Bush to allow him to go after Saddam, even though the two are relatively unrelated.

If you want to accuse American's of making ourselves look like the victim to get approval from the international community use facts, like Fort Sumter, Lincoln forced the South to fire the first shots of the American Civil War. Or like when we "stole" California from Mexico during the Mexican War, in which we aided Texas when they went to war with Mexico, again. And the War of 1812, we were expanding westward into disputed territory and we ended up going to war with Britain, most people say that was a draw but I believe that merely doing that was a victory for the US.