Your view on the Terri Schiavo case

The only thing on this I have to say is that I am a bit concerned about how the government is getting involved in this case. Soon they will be having the "Give Bob Gerber a Lung Act of 2005"(John Stewart :p ). I don't know about the other U.S. citizens but i think the government getting more into personal lives scares me a bit.
 
In my humble opinion, the Terry Shiavo case is a disgrace. It's a gigantic media circus over a woman who some doctors say is braindead and some doctors say is not. Some say she might recover, some say she never will. She's been comotose for 15 years. You get to hear spirited opinions about what a great atrocity is being done, but nobody invovled really and truly knows for certain if Terry will actually recover. There is not agreement over even such basics as whether she is braindead or not. Her parents have put forward several theories of foul play on Mr. Shiavo's part. They may or may not be legit, but there isn't enough evidence to even bring a case to court over it. They might be right in some or all of their claims, but its just as likely they're making things up to demonize their opposition. Mr. Shiavo ought to have given her up I believe, but lets be honest: There are countless attrocities involving huge masses of people in this world. We know with 100% certainty that they are inexcusable attrocities. So why is so much being focussed on a situation where absolute certainty is simply impossible?
 
godofthunder9010 said:
There are countless attrocities involving huge masses of people in this world. We know with 100% certainty that they are inexcusable attrocities. So why is so much being focussed on a situation where absolute certainty is simply impossible?

To paraphrase/plagiarize someone more erudite than me: one death is a tragedy; a thousand deaths is a statistic. We know that multitudes died in Darfur, Rwanda, Somalia, the tsunami; but we don't know who they are. But thanks to the media attention, for better or for worse, we know Terri. She's beamed into our houses or delivered to our doorstep every morning. We probably see her more than we see our own family. We know her husband, her mom, her dad, her sibs. We know her medical history. We know her religion. We know the details of her parents' relationship with her father. I'd wager most people on this board could easily list as many facts about Terri as they could about their best friend.

That's why there's this hue and cry. She has a face, she has a name, and we know who she is. And it's hard to be indifferent to that. Thousands of people dying halfway across the world -- it's overwhelming, and at the same time, remote. But when it's one lone woman, at the eye of a legal, moral, and ethical tempest, whose family is ripping itself apart while legal and medical minds decide whether she lives or dies, or is indeed already dead, and every night it's up close and personal...

Thats why we care.
 
SigPig said:
godofthunder9010 said:
There are countless attrocities involving huge masses of people in this world. We know with 100% certainty that they are inexcusable attrocities. So why is so much being focussed on a situation where absolute certainty is simply impossible?

To paraphrase/plagiarize someone more erudite than me: one death is a tragedy; a thousand deaths is a statistic. We know that multitudes died in Darfur, Rwanda, Somalia, the tsunami; but we don't know who they are. But thanks to the media attention, for better or for worse, we know Terri. She's beamed into our houses or delivered to our doorstep every morning. We probably see her more than we see our own family. We know her husband, her mom, her dad, her sibs. We know her medical history. We know her religion. We know the details of her parents' relationship with her father. I'd wager most people on this board could easily list as many facts about Terri as they could about their best friend.

That's why there's this hue and cry. She has a face, she has a name, and we know who she is. And it's hard to be indifferent to that. Thousands of people dying halfway across the world -- it's overwhelming, and at the same time, remote. But when it's one lone woman, at the eye of a legal, moral, and ethical tempest, whose family is ripping itself apart while legal and medical minds decide whether she lives or dies, or is indeed already dead, and every night it's up close and personal...

Thats why we care.
Well said and I'm humbled.

The case of Terry Shiavo is a lousy case to base anything on. Still, it is worrisome to me that lawmakers will likely get pressured into making a large number of laws that will make a bigger mess than actually solving anything. I think that the whole thing is leading somewhere that concerns me: Regulating and defining things with laws when it probably should be something very personal to each individual family, and primarily under their control. Things may be leading away from familial control, depending on the direction things go. [/i]
 
Well, I don't see it as removing familial control but as defining it more clearly. At what point must the state step in to make a decision when a living will does not exist needs some clearing up. And then the only decisions should be (a) does a family exist? and if not then the state determines care. (b) If a family does exist what happens if the spouse refuses care? (c) if the spouse refuses care do parents or siblings have the option of assuming care? Of course there are answers to these questions now, but the matter could use some review. Do we want those answers still?
 
You get the feeling that it all ended wrong in this particular case, but I don't know how much is real and how much is what the media wants to make me and everyone else feel. I do hope that the Terry Shiavo case does not lead to numerous other cases being dragged into the public spotlight. Theses sorts of situations should be very very personal and its hard enough on any family without having to deal it being made into a public spectacle.

At the very least, Terry Shiavo is not potentially suffering any longer and the whole thing is over now. In this particular case, there are an endless list of questions that we don't have the answers to. I hope Charge7 is right and the inevitable pressure that will be exerted on lawmakers leads to only good things. I worry that there is going to be added headaches for families in cases where pulling the plug really is the right thing to do.
 
This appalling show could only happen in America. :cry:

The courts did the right thing. An animal in this poor woman's condition would have been peacefully put to death years ago.

Bush should be ashamed of himself for attempting to get political mileage out of this sorry episode. :(

I'm glad that 70% of Americans believe that Bush should have kept out of it. Some faith has been restored in the US.

I don't think the wide spread use of "living wills" is going to stop the US religious right from trying to pull a stunt like this again. :x
 
Although the religious right did get some mileage out of this, they did not "pull a stunt" to have this happen. If you think so, then you weren't paying very close attention. This was a family vs. a spouse and nothing more. Though the issues involved were of interest to political parties and causes they were not the cause of this case hitting the headlines. It was a milestone case for a society facing new situations as medical advances (and shortcomings) come about. The Terri Shiavo case was beyond politics as the end of it has surely proven.
 
Charge_7 said:
Although the religious right did get some mileage out of this, they did not "pull a stunt" to have this happen. If you think so, then you weren't paying very close attention. This was a family vs. a spouse and nothing more. Though the issues involved were of interest to political parties and causes they were not the cause of this case hitting the headlines. It was a milestone case for a society facing new situations as medical advances (and shortcomings) come about. The Terri Shiavo case was beyond politics as the end of it has surely proven.

You have got to be kidding!!!!! :lol:

I must have missed something recently in the dozens of articles I have read on this sad story. :roll:

Vitriol and hysteria seem to be engulfing the Republicans at the moment thanks to Mr DeLay.

The treatment of Judge Greer, a conservative evangelical Christian and a committed Republican I might add, has received some terrible verbal treatment from people who should know better. It's a shameful episode.

The "end of it" came about because the courts stood up to Bush's political moves.

I'm sorry Charge but the political battles on this issue are not going to be over soon, unfortunately.
 
Strongbow said:
This appalling show could only happen in America. :cry:

The courts did the right thing. An animal in this poor woman's condition would have been peacefully put to death years ago.

Bush should be ashamed of himself for attempting to get political mileage out of this sorry episode. :(

I'm glad that 70% of Americans believe that Bush should have kept out of it. Some faith has been restored in the US.

I don't think the wide spread use of "living wills" is going to stop the US religious right from trying to pull a stunt like this again. :x

Tone it down there strongbow.
 
I agree with what Chewie first said, it's no way to live, and no way to die.

I am divided on the issue, because I myself would not want to live in a state such as that, and I dont think that it's anyway for someone to live. Although, the method of bringing about death wasnt what I would've agreed with, it caused agony for everyone, the parents, brothers and sisters, husband, and the people. Not to mention it gave more rise to national divisions with State and Federal courts siding (in my view) appropriately and then Congress and the White House interveneing. I feel that a method of quicker death (such as injection), would have been a better way for all parties.
 
You may say "well done" but you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't live here and you aren't Americans. Don't presume to tell us what brought this about just because your media puts a liberal spin on it. I did agree that the religious right had gotten mileage out of this case but you're completely delusional if you think they put Mr. Shiavo and Terri's family "up to it". BTW, the liberal left got plenty of mileage out of it too.
 
i really felt for both sides of teris family (blood & marriage)

because it stopped being about teri, she just became an object for so many other people/causes.

such a shame for a very personal tragedy to become a very public disgrace



lets hope lessons are learnt from it
 
I agree with most of that, Chewie. The part I don't completely agree with is that it "stopped being about Terri". It certainly did for many people. No doubt of that. However, many others, myself included, could easily put themselves in this sad story quite personally.
 
Charge_7 said:
You may say "well done" but you have no idea what you're talking about. You don't live here and you aren't Americans. Don't presume to tell us what brought this about just because your media puts a liberal spin on it. I did agree that the religious right had gotten mileage out of this case but you're completely delusional if you think they put Mr. Shiavo and Terri's family "up to it". BTW, the liberal left got plenty of mileage out of it too.

You seem to use the word "liberal" quite alot in your posts, charge.

I'll give you a website to one of our, which I consider well balanced, newspapers.

http://www.theage.com.au

Hopefully you will be able to find an article on this very sad story.

We aussies also can easily follow stories on the Washington Post etc via the web.

You seem to have avoided commenting on some of the points Strongbow made. Particularly Bush's role.

Strongbow didn't say that Terry's family were "put up" to it.
 
The Washington Post is a notoriously extremely liberal leftist newspaper. If you think that's "balanced" you're more delusional than I thought.

This is what Strongbow said:

I don't think the wide spread use of "living wills" is going to stop the US religious right from trying to pull a stunt like this again.

So tell me where you could get any other conclusion from that than he's stating it was all setup by the religious right?

You want me to comment on Bush's role? I thought I did when I said that the right and the left had gotten mileage out of it. If you want me to expand upon that then fine. Bush did what his beliefs told him to do. Could you fault him for being more involved in it when his brother was at the heart of it all? Family stands by family - surely even in Australia. That's what Terri's family did too of course.

Oh, and is "liberal" a bad word then? I use words like "conservative" too as well as "right" and "left". You have a problem with that? Would you rather I said "the good guys" and "the bad guys" as you seem to think is the proper teminology?
 
aussiejohn, if you cannot say something civil, don't say anything at all, at YOUR age you should know this.

No flaming or insulting of other members is allowed.
 
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