Your thoughts on the modern militia... - Page 3




 
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October 11th, 2005  
Rabs
 
 
Problem being that anybdoy thats gona wanna be in a milita especially in the south, is gona be a "good ole boy." probally fat and probally racist. Hicks are racist, its a fact. I just dont trust un-managed citizens to take the law into there own hands. It scares me,

maybe if these guys were like an auxillary, with a offical military leader, and just citizen soldiers id be more for it. However i do not agree with completey civilian ran groups being able to jump into the fray.
October 11th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
I don't like militias, they make me nervous.

1. As somebody said they lack training many of these guys tend to be more wannabes than the real deal. I think we all can agree that playing soldier in the woods is not the same thing as being one.

2. Some of the anti-government rhetoric (be it a republican or democrat) I have heard from them borders paranoia...

3. Both federal and local law enforcement dislike them. Indeed Some of the militia walk a narrow legal tightrope. A few have been caught going over that line, Tim McVeigh for example...

4. There is no control over them. All law enforcement or military organizations have some sort of authority to keep them in line. Militas are independent. What happens if they decide to take things into their own hands?

5. Some (although not all) have close or ties relations with truely detestable hate groups such as Aryan Nation, Christian Identity, and various other Neo-Nazi groups. At the vary least, these viewpoints are tolerated with certain groups. Some militias don't espouse racist viewpoints but many do, And members drift between the militia/racist/survivalist groups easily...

So to summerize. We have a group of extremely well armed people many of which harbor a resentment (and even paranoia) of government and sometimes minority groups without any sort of control or supervision.

Legally their existance is not illegal (for the moment at least). However they make people nervous. Fortunatly the tradegy at Oklahoma City put the movement into a decline.

My .02 cents
u dont like em becuz u dont have any thing like them in Europe and europeans are not really familiar with the concept of it!
October 11th, 2005  
mmarsh
 
 
5.56

The reason is the term 'militia' has many different definitions. I found 4 different ones on Wikipedia. I think its also fair to say most people back home when they talk militia the anti-government groups is the most common definition. I agree thats unfortunate, but it must be said that not all groups are racist.

Phoenix

u dont like em becuz u dont have any thing like them in Europe and europeans are not really familiar with the concept of it![/quote]

The German Freikorps, the 16th century Swiss Militia, the UK Atholl Highlanders, not to mention every partisan units in WWII such as the French, Dutch, Czech, Italian, Greek, Serb Resistence Movement, just to name a few. There are still Militias fighting in places like Serbia. All of these groups were Militias.

Did you mean the racist parmilitaries in the US? Your're right that the Europeans dont have such groups, and that's a good thing.

One last thing. For for future reference, I'm a Dual-National French-American who lived there 28 years. I fly the Tricolors because I work there. Being that you are Canadian, please dont ever suggest that I dont know anything about my own country. Thank You.
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October 11th, 2005  
Rabs
 
 
Quote:
Do you mean the militias such as the Racists paramilitary groups? Well your're right that the Europeans dont have them, and that's a good thing.
Guess those guys in serbia were freedom fighters.
October 11th, 2005  
mmarsh
 
 
[quote="Rabs"]
Quote:
Do you mean the militias such as the Racists paramilitary groups? Well your're right that the Europeans dont have them, and that's a good thing.
Touche... Good point. I stand corrected.
October 11th, 2005  
Italian Guy
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabs
Quote:
Do you mean the militias such as the Racists paramilitary groups? Well your're right that the Europeans dont have them, and that's a good thing.
Guess those guys in serbia were freedom fighters.
October 11th, 2005  
SmallTownHopeful
 
If they could somehow regulate this militia, so they weren't letting the thugs control everything, I would be for it. I mean, in New Orleans you didn't hear anything about a group of good civilians keeping order, you heard about hordes of gangs roaming the streets. It's quite sad, really
October 11th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramjet
Quote:
Citizens will slowly but inevitably lose more and more of their rights to the government.
Why is it inevitable?
Because in a democracy, politicians get elected on what they can make the GOVERNMENT do for YOU. Understand that process. They don't get elected by saying "I AM GOING TO MAKE SURE THE GOVERNMENT DOES LESS FOR YOU!"

They get up they and say I'm going to do X for seniors, I'm going to do Y for working moms, I'm going to do Z for the poor etc.

And once a program is started it rarely contracts or is stopped because of the iron triangle of support; politicians, beurocrats, and the group recieving the bennefits.

So there is a lot of incentive for governemnt power to gradually increase whereas there is very little incentive for it to contract. Look at the history of modern federalist democracies and you will see this trend.

Therfore, government expansion in federalist democracies is inevitable.
October 12th, 2005  
sleepyscout
 
 
If the government allowed such groups to exist, then they would not be militias, they would be the National Guard. What is the purpose of these groups? It is to allow every day civilians to come together and train to protect themselves, right? Theyíre going to get together and train to defend themselves and their fellow country men using fire arms; sounds a lot like I an oath I took when I joined the U.S. Army. If youíre worried about feeling protected, then why donít you become police officers and work towards improving your community?

To be honest, the militia concept seems born out of mistrust for the central government. This worries me. So now we have a bunch of citizens who are getting together and training with weapons yet are not being held responsible to any one but themselves. Armies are instruments of killing, but a more surgical form, the controlled killing of those deemed as dangerous by the government. A solider is told who to kill and when. The officers in the army are the control mechanism. When a solider kills in a manner that is not to the countryís liking, itís not wholly the soldierís fault, but shared with the officers. They control and channel the soldierís actions. Militias have no control, and while one would say that you could trust most of the people who join these militias and that they have good intentions, it is not enough to guarantee that their actions would be accounted for. When one group does not see eye to eye with another group, what is to prevent the shedding of blood between these groups? That system is called a feudal system and proven by history to not work. The KKK and Black Panthers come to mind, as well as other supremacy groups. Look at Iraq today, warring internally because of hate between tribes. Everyone has an AK-47 and a grudge.
The rights of general peaceful assembly and the right to bear arms are still applicable today, but the days of back water colonists fighting a superpower British government are over. The times must be considered when viewing our rights and freedoms. For instance, in a democracy, certain rights are sacrificed for the benefit of the whole, such as allowing searches in airports. Certainly all good Americans have nothing to hide?
Thatís right you canít have a machine gun because the government says itís illegal. Not because it doesnít want you to have it but because it canít trust ALL of its citizens to follow the law. A good example of the mistrust would be of Ö I donít know, two men who went robbing banks with machine guns and body armor and mowed down a modern police force charged with protecting its citizens. Hollywood? Ring a bell?
October 12th, 2005  
Rabs
 
 
Quote:
The times must be considered when viewing our rights and freedoms. For instance, in a democracy, certain rights are sacrificed for the benefit of the whole, such as allowing searches in airports. Certainly all good Americans have nothing to hide?
No sir. My rights as an american(which i thank you for defending) to keep and bear arms, to avoid unreasonable search and my right to free speach. Are not interuptable by the "times" in which we live.

If our constitutution means nothing, whats the point of haveing it? If my rights are restricted because the government finds it helpful, that sir might incourage me to form a milita for much more sinister purpose.

Putting your full trust in our sadly corupt and bloated government is kind of sad. Should you help, and serve your government as best you can. Yes. Should you give your rights and freedoms and put your undeinable trust into it. No