Mighty Mouse
Active member
I think Dr. Bennett makes some very fair and interesting points about Pres. Obama's first year in office.
National Review
National Review
Year One of a President at War with Reality
The Other Guy
Spam King
So we're going to fight the blame war by... blaming Obama! Sounds like a fantastic plan!
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
To be honest it is a pretty poor attempt at attacking the guy as everything he is accused of creating in that list he inherited from the last administration.
As far as the worlds "high hopes" for Obama go, I think you will find few that believed he was going to solve the worlds problems they just had a great deal of hope that he wasn't going to create as many problems as Bush did and this would have remained the case had no matter who was elected.
I personally don't know or really care how Obama is doing as president but I am absolutely convinced the world is a lot safer without Bush's finger on the trigger.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
See where things are in 3 years, then make an assessment.
I think the guy who wrote the article needs to wake up to reality: complex problems rarely get solved in 15 minutes and often don't get solved in one year either.
Some things just take time to work out. Life, reality is just like that.
I think the guy who wrote the article needs to wake up to reality: complex problems rarely get solved in 15 minutes and often don't get solved in one year either.
Some things just take time to work out. Life, reality is just like that.
Rob Henderson
Banned
Something as large as the economic events of an entire world do not simply fix themselves in a year. They move in terms of MULTIPLE years. It took at least 8 years to get to where we are today, it'll probably take even LONGER to get out.
It's like gas prices. When gas goes up, it goes up ten cents a gallon over night... But when it goes DOWN, it goes down one or two cents at a time.
It's like gas prices. When gas goes up, it goes up ten cents a gallon over night... But when it goes DOWN, it goes down one or two cents at a time.
senojekips
Active member
I said it somewhere else, and I'll say it again.
If you drive like an idiot and wreck your car, it's hardly fair to blame the crash repairer who buys it because he can't make it like it drive like a brand new one.
If you drive like an idiot and wreck your car, it's hardly fair to blame the crash repairer who buys it because he can't make it like it drive like a brand new one.
Mighty Mouse
Active member
I see no untruths in that list. The President has been in office for a year. It's now past the time when he can or should continue to blame previous administrations for his lack of constructive action or concrete results. Sure, nothing is going to be an instantaneous fix. I don't think anyone could reasonably expect that.
Dr. Bennett is indeed a conservative but he certainly is not Rush or Hannity. You can't merely dismiss his points because he is a conservative. For Obama to simply keep blaming Bush and not start fixing at least some problems is incompetent and dangerous.
For Americans to keep talking about Iraq while ignoring the increased presence in A'stan and the looming specter of Yemen is merely turning a blind eye to the present and a deaf ear to the future. I think most all Americas wish the President all the success in the world. His success is our success after all. But, if those popularity numbers are at all believable, more and more of us are seeing little content in this President's rhetoric. Our collective heads are coming out of the sand. All that is evident is increased national debt, increasing prices, stagnant paychecks and record high unemployment despite the President's staggeringly costly bail out attempts.
Sorry folks, I don't buy it.
Dr. Bennett is indeed a conservative but he certainly is not Rush or Hannity. You can't merely dismiss his points because he is a conservative. For Obama to simply keep blaming Bush and not start fixing at least some problems is incompetent and dangerous.
For Americans to keep talking about Iraq while ignoring the increased presence in A'stan and the looming specter of Yemen is merely turning a blind eye to the present and a deaf ear to the future. I think most all Americas wish the President all the success in the world. His success is our success after all. But, if those popularity numbers are at all believable, more and more of us are seeing little content in this President's rhetoric. Our collective heads are coming out of the sand. All that is evident is increased national debt, increasing prices, stagnant paychecks and record high unemployment despite the President's staggeringly costly bail out attempts.
Sorry folks, I don't buy it.
mmarsh
Active member
Talk about Living in Denial
Economy/Unemployment: Sorry Bill this is your (meaning your parties) mess, Obama only inherited it. Only the most loyal of rightwing Kool-Aid drinkers would think that Obama is responsible for the economy. It was not Obama that passed two millionaire taxbreaks, destroyed the budget surplus withon 1.5 years, destroyed the Social Security Lockbox. it was not Obama who pushed deregulation that led to both to the worst corporate collapse but also the worst corporate frauds. The Federal Deficiets are yours, the fact that Obama was forced to increase spending to halt the economic freefall was a result of your incompetance. Most economists agree that if he had not acted we have entered a Economic Depression akin to 1929. The GOP talks agood line about small governement, but they have had the LARGEST governments in US history. Democrats used to be tax and spend, but your party is the borrow-and-spend which is considerably worse.
Terrorism. Oh please. No security system is 100% foolproof just ask Isreal, the fact that a lone bomber managed to get through the AMSTERDAM Airport security probably could not be helped, just like it wasnt able to stop 19 terrorists 8 years ago. If you want to crunch numbers likes compare 1st years:
Americans on US soil killed by terrorists during Obama's first year = 0. Americans on US soil killed by terrorists during Bush's first year = 4000.
So Whose really been better on terrorism?
Incidently I have been several times to Schimpol Airport in Amsterdam (have you?), its security is pretty tight, tighter than many US cities I have flown out of.
Iraq and Afghanistan, Iraq is entirely your mess Mr Bennett because you were one of the loudest advocates FOR the war. As for Afghanistan its strange that you and your republicans who did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on Afghanistan and who let OBL slip through their fingers actually have the nerve to criticize Obama's Afghanistan policy. Obama has done more on Afghanistan this year than your people did the previous 8.
Your blaming Obama because of the Olympics is simply stupid. The fact that the IOC made their decision 24H after Obama's speach proves that they had already made their decision BEFOREHAND. Incidentally the way I heard it the reason the IOC denied Chicago was because they were still furious about the Salt Lake City bribery scandal.
Same with Copenhagen, Obama DID come back with a deal. It was not as much as he hoped but it was far from the "nothing" that you claim. Nor is it his fault because other nations (like China) wouldnt agree. China doesnt agree with anyone. And BTW, since when has the GOP cared about the environment? Yours is the party with people like James Inhofe who refuse to admit their is a Climate problem or that Dinosaurs roamed the earth. What enviromental laws did you recently pass? and I am not talking about the laws passed by the Bush Administration (Health Forest, Clean Air act) that turned National parks to the timber industry or let polluters set pcb standards.
I have my own complaints about Obama, but this is just a pathetic attempt to preach to the rightwing choir (National Review) and blame Obama for *something*.
Mightymouse
Bill Bennett is hardcore Neoconservative, and had been since 1986 when he joined the GOP. He was one of the signatories (Cheney, Rummy, Wolfy, Perle, Fujiyama, etc) to that famous letter the neocons wrote President Bill Clinton urging him to invade Iraq. He was a Boardmember of the Hertiage Foundation during the lead up to the Iraq war. You can tell this in article because he displays one of the key traits of neoconservatism -never accepting responsibility for its own mistakes. You are right to say that he didnt lie, but he deliberately left out mentioning that almost ALL our problems (economic, Iraq, Afghanistan, Enviromental), originated from the previous administration which pretty dishonest because it implies that everything is Obama's fault.
Remember this is an election and the GOP would love to make Obama the scapegoat.
Economy/Unemployment: Sorry Bill this is your (meaning your parties) mess, Obama only inherited it. Only the most loyal of rightwing Kool-Aid drinkers would think that Obama is responsible for the economy. It was not Obama that passed two millionaire taxbreaks, destroyed the budget surplus withon 1.5 years, destroyed the Social Security Lockbox. it was not Obama who pushed deregulation that led to both to the worst corporate collapse but also the worst corporate frauds. The Federal Deficiets are yours, the fact that Obama was forced to increase spending to halt the economic freefall was a result of your incompetance. Most economists agree that if he had not acted we have entered a Economic Depression akin to 1929. The GOP talks agood line about small governement, but they have had the LARGEST governments in US history. Democrats used to be tax and spend, but your party is the borrow-and-spend which is considerably worse.
Terrorism. Oh please. No security system is 100% foolproof just ask Isreal, the fact that a lone bomber managed to get through the AMSTERDAM Airport security probably could not be helped, just like it wasnt able to stop 19 terrorists 8 years ago. If you want to crunch numbers likes compare 1st years:
Americans on US soil killed by terrorists during Obama's first year = 0. Americans on US soil killed by terrorists during Bush's first year = 4000.
So Whose really been better on terrorism?
Incidently I have been several times to Schimpol Airport in Amsterdam (have you?), its security is pretty tight, tighter than many US cities I have flown out of.
Iraq and Afghanistan, Iraq is entirely your mess Mr Bennett because you were one of the loudest advocates FOR the war. As for Afghanistan its strange that you and your republicans who did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on Afghanistan and who let OBL slip through their fingers actually have the nerve to criticize Obama's Afghanistan policy. Obama has done more on Afghanistan this year than your people did the previous 8.
Your blaming Obama because of the Olympics is simply stupid. The fact that the IOC made their decision 24H after Obama's speach proves that they had already made their decision BEFOREHAND. Incidentally the way I heard it the reason the IOC denied Chicago was because they were still furious about the Salt Lake City bribery scandal.
Same with Copenhagen, Obama DID come back with a deal. It was not as much as he hoped but it was far from the "nothing" that you claim. Nor is it his fault because other nations (like China) wouldnt agree. China doesnt agree with anyone. And BTW, since when has the GOP cared about the environment? Yours is the party with people like James Inhofe who refuse to admit their is a Climate problem or that Dinosaurs roamed the earth. What enviromental laws did you recently pass? and I am not talking about the laws passed by the Bush Administration (Health Forest, Clean Air act) that turned National parks to the timber industry or let polluters set pcb standards.
I have my own complaints about Obama, but this is just a pathetic attempt to preach to the rightwing choir (National Review) and blame Obama for *something*.
Mightymouse
Bill Bennett is hardcore Neoconservative, and had been since 1986 when he joined the GOP. He was one of the signatories (Cheney, Rummy, Wolfy, Perle, Fujiyama, etc) to that famous letter the neocons wrote President Bill Clinton urging him to invade Iraq. He was a Boardmember of the Hertiage Foundation during the lead up to the Iraq war. You can tell this in article because he displays one of the key traits of neoconservatism -never accepting responsibility for its own mistakes. You are right to say that he didnt lie, but he deliberately left out mentioning that almost ALL our problems (economic, Iraq, Afghanistan, Enviromental), originated from the previous administration which pretty dishonest because it implies that everything is Obama's fault.
Remember this is an election and the GOP would love to make Obama the scapegoat.
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Nice try! Yeah Bush & the Big Govt. Republicans screwed up by trying to spend like Democrats, & that got em booted by disgruntled Conservatives & people who forgot how Democrats spend money. The Dems have looted the Social Security Fund since the Great Society started, that huge pool of money was just to tempting. Deregulation started before Bush 2 & that drooling fool Barney Frank fought hard against allegations his buddy running (Fanny or Freedy?) was making a mess of the morgage situation. Plenty of blame to go around. And "Forced Obama to spend money", hah! the Libs aren't upset about the orgy of spending that is going on, just that it isn't going into the welfare/entitlement/Govt dependence category, but that it's being used to save evil corporations. They're upset about no huge increases in Govt hand outs. The only thing they seem happy about is the huge increase in Govt power & dependence that the health care bill will give the govt.
mmarsh
Active member
No George. Turn the propaganda off for a second.
First of all it wasnt the spending that got the GOP booting. It was the lies (WMD, Plamegate), corruption (too numerous to list) moral hypocracy (Vitter, Foley, etc) and incompetance (Katrina, the economy) that did that.
Second of all the GOP has always been the party of "Laisser-faire" business policy. Thats been true since Warren G Harding. That is one of there core beliefs and one of the fundimental philosopical differences between Republicans and Democrats on Economic Issues. Democrats support regulation, the GOP de-regulation. This is PolSci 101.
As for averting the Great Depression. This is from Paul Krugman Professor at Princeton University and Nobel Prize winner in Economics. He specifically states that the Obama bailout averted a total financial meltdown.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKBNG53785420090810
First of all it wasnt the spending that got the GOP booting. It was the lies (WMD, Plamegate), corruption (too numerous to list) moral hypocracy (Vitter, Foley, etc) and incompetance (Katrina, the economy) that did that.
Second of all the GOP has always been the party of "Laisser-faire" business policy. Thats been true since Warren G Harding. That is one of there core beliefs and one of the fundimental philosopical differences between Republicans and Democrats on Economic Issues. Democrats support regulation, the GOP de-regulation. This is PolSci 101.
As for averting the Great Depression. This is from Paul Krugman Professor at Princeton University and Nobel Prize winner in Economics. He specifically states that the Obama bailout averted a total financial meltdown.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKBNG53785420090810
Chukpike
Banned
Obama supporters have consistently said to give Obama a chance and that you can't expect President Obama to correct the previous administrations screw ups the first year.
Then mmarsh blames Bush for first year terrorist attacks and praises Obama.
What mmarsh and Obama's supporters are really saying is:
9/11 and 4,000 killed on US soil is Clinton's fault. Bush's First Year
Zero killed in Obama's first year would be do to President Bush's administration. Obama's First Year
:lol:
Of course that is politics, the same as the Democrats making Bush the scapegoat last year, and ongoing. (probably straight through all of Obama's term.
Actually, I am surprised to see how much the media seems to be turning on President Obama recently.
Who else are we gonna blame? Its his watch now, its his war now, what he does with it will help define him as a president.
Personally I'm waiting for WW3. Einstein said he didn't know how that one would be fought
There is always the danger of losing it without a shot being fired, but I don't think USA will fall for that one; on the other hand, Europe may already be lost by the same token.:-(
The Other Guy
Spam King
I'm amazed at your ability to make the opposition look bad while saying nothing good about your own side. Are you sure you don't work for the GOP? (not meaning it in a mean way, just observing)Obama supporters have consistently said to give Obama a chance and that you can't expect President Obama to correct the previous administrations screw ups the first year.
Then mmarsh blames Bush for first year terrorist attacks and praises Obama.
What mmarsh and Obama's supporters are really saying is:
9/11 and 4,000 killed on US soil is Clinton's fault. Bush's First Year
Zero killed in Obama's first year would be do to President Bush's administration. Obama's First Year
:lol:
Of course that is politics, the same as the Democrats making Bush the scapegoat last year, and ongoing. (probably straight through all of Obama's term.
Actually, I am surprised to see how much the media seems to be turning on President Obama recently.
Bush corruption & lies vs the cesspool of the Clinton Admin? How soon we forget! In philosopy its true about regulating & dergulating, but Dems have done it too. AROCH pushed the Clinton Admin for forcing sub prime morgages, Barney Frank quashed McCains warnings about banking & then blamed McCain in the campaign, what brass.
Chukpike
Banned
Exactly what I did, make an observation.
Actually, pigeon holing me as far right, as some have done, would not be accurate.
Not agreeing with mmarsh always leaves you as part of the "right", as it is not possible to take a position to the left of him.
eace::lol:My problem with President Obama is all the campaign promises he had no ability to keep. He offered Change and the suckers ate it up. He never promised whether it would be good or bad.
The Other Guy
Spam King
I dunno, one of my cousins had a booth at a local community festival in between the Hare Krishna and the Ohio Communist Party. That's far left! :-DNot agreeing with mmarsh always leaves you as part of the "right", as it is not possible to take a position to the left of him.
On a more serious note, I haven't been precisely thrilled with Obama's performance so far. He reminds me of one of the demons from Norton Juster's Phantom Tollbooth. The demon has three heads, two of which violently disagree with each other and a third that agrees equally with both, so it ends up going in circles. That's the Obama administration right now; trying to agree with everyone while accomplishing nothing. I think he needs to take directive and pick a side, because he's not making the GOP happy anyway, even when he's trying to. I say to heck with them, do what you want while you still can!
Despite these shortcomings, though, he is not doing as poorly as the Right Wing would like to have us think.
Your right there, .
mmarsh
Active member
I read that book in my youth too. Thats a pretty good anology. One bug difference between Obama and Bush.
Bush refused to listen to anybody. He had his hive mind circle of advisors and refused to listen to anybody else including the Press, Public or opposition which he viewed as as an obstacle to his administration. Which would have been fine had he had been right, unfortunatly anything Bush touched turned to mud and his unwillingness to compromise, admit mistake or second guess himself doomed his administration.
Obama is preceisely the opposite. Instead of "Change" as he promised, he has so far offered "Compromise" on everything from Afghanistan to the Economy to Healthcare. His policy so far are so half-assed they please nobody and piss off everybody. Worst of all he stabbed his base as he seems to have stabbed them in the back, something Bush didnt do but should have. His Administration is not bad, but its clear that he has been a dissappointment. Obama gave himself "a solid B+" but in reality its more like a C. I think Obama's very smart, very articulate, and Chrismatic and hes far better than his predessor. But hes weak and everybody sees it. Obama has shown is ability to compromise, now he nows to show to the planet that hes not to be f***ed with.
And Chukpike, if you really think I am the far left than it just illustrates your utter ignorence about such things. You are FAR more to the right than I am to the left.
Chukpike
Banned
"His policy so far are so half-assed they please nobody and piss off everybody. Worst of all he stabbed his base as he seems to have stabbed them in the back, something Bush didnt do but should have. His Administration is not bad, but its clear that he has been a dissappointment." quotemmarsh
Looks like you are almost in touch with reality.
You still want to bring up your dislike for Bush, by now you should realize that he is gone and move on. This would allow you to deal with the here and now. Joining us in discussing present conditions.
Basically you are saying President Obama has failed, by not changing the old business as usual in Washington. He has been willing to compromise and except the old status quo.