WWII Quiz - Page 172




 
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February 3rd, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
No, he only answered part of the question.

The remaining part of the question is,
Why was the term "double cross" used?
Umm I am a little adrift with this question but I will take a shot to get people thinking or at least give them a wrong answer to play with...

The use of the term "double cross" came from the over seeing committee set up by MI5 called the twenty committee which had the Roman numerals XX forming a double cross.
February 3rd, 2009  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Umm I am a little adrift with this question but I will take a shot to get people thinking or at least give them a wrong answer to play with...

The use of the term "double cross" came from the over seeing committee set up by MI5 called the twenty committee which had the Roman numerals XX forming a double cross.

Correct Monty
February 3rd, 2009  
Mark Conley
 
 
Possibly because it dealt with section 20, or as it was noted on the door XX.

Oopps.
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February 3rd, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Correct Monty

Ok this will be a bit disjointed as it is a very easy but I hope interesting question...

1) Name the ship that sunk in the Clyde in early 1943?

2) What contribution it is "believed" one of her crewman played later that year in helping the allied war effort?
February 3rd, 2009  
LeEnfield
 
 
The man who never was
February 4th, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
The man who never was
Well that is a sizable part of the second question but what about the first?
February 4th, 2009  
BritinAfrica
 
 
HMS Dasher?

The man who never was, Major Martin RM
February 4th, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
Well I guess that is most of the answer I was looking for, here is the abridged version...

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HMS Dasher Disaster 1943
Lying in 130m (426 feet) of water to the S of Little Cumbrae in the Firth of Clyde, HMS Dasher was lost following what is thought to have been an accidental explosion of aviation fuel on 27th March, 1943. She sank within eight minutes, with the loss of 379 lives, killed on-board, by the burning oil that had spread across the surface of the sea, or from exposure. Only 149 of her crew survived the disaster.
Mystery surrounded the loss for many years, with relatives told little of the fate of their loved ones. This was in part due to the necessary circumspection required in times of war, but recent research has suggested that it may also have been because one of the drowned sailors became 'the man who never was' - a deliberate subterfuge on the part of British intelligence whereby a body was set adrift off the Spanish coast in May 1943, which convinced the Germans to redirect their defences away from the invasion of Sicily. This operation was launched from nearby Greenock.
Dasher had been built as a cargo ship in the USA in 1941 but was quickly converted to an aircraft carrier and commissioned by the Royal Navy in July 1942. She sailed for Britain the following month, arriving off the Royal Naval Air Station at Campbeltown on 24th August. She then took part in the landings in North Africa and convoy duty but, suffering some minor damage, had come to the Clyde for repairs. It was during trials after these repairs were completed that disaster struck.

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Anyway you are up.
February 4th, 2009  
BritinAfrica
 
 
Some sites and programmes on TV have stated that the identity of the body of Major Martin was unknown, while others state he was a Welsh tramp who died from rat poison.

Nonetheless, its still an amazing story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/pda/A3031949?s_id=11

There is a plain white marble tombstone in a graveyard in the Spanish town of Huelva bearing the name 'William Martin', beneath which rests the body of a man who helped save the lives of thousands and turned the tides of war. A red carnation has been laid on this grave on a regular basis � the grave of a man whose identity, for over half a century, remained a mystery, protected by the committee who oversaw Operation Mincemeat.

Then in 1996, 53 years after Mincemeat, a British town planning officer and amateur historian by the name of Roger Morgan uncovered evidence that Major Martin had actually been a homeless Welsh alcoholic named Glyndwr Michael who had died through ingestion of rat poison (whether it was suicide or accidental poisoning was undetermined) [Morgan had found his name in the Public Record Office in Kew, West London. ] . This was supported by the fact that rat poison commonly contained cyanide which causes pulmonary congestion or chemical pneumonia; in addition, the place of birth Montagu's committee had given Martin was Cardiff in Wales.

Here's a simple one

Who was the youngest sailor to win the Victoria Cross?

On which ship did he win his VC?

During which battle did he win his VC?

At what age did he win his VC?
February 4th, 2009  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
Some sites and programmes on TV have stated that the identity of the body of Major Martin was unknown, while others state he was a Welsh tramp who died from rat poison.

Nonetheless, its still an amazing story

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/pda/A3031949?s_id=11

There is a plain white marble tombstone in a graveyard in the Spanish town of Huelva bearing the name 'William Martin', beneath which rests the body of a man who helped save the lives of thousands and turned the tides of war. A red carnation has been laid on this grave on a regular basis � the grave of a man whose identity, for over half a century, remained a mystery, protected by the committee who oversaw Operation Mincemeat.

Then in 1996, 53 years after Mincemeat, a British town planning officer and amateur historian by the name of Roger Morgan uncovered evidence that Major Martin had actually been a homeless Welsh alcoholic named Glyndwr Michael who had died through ingestion of rat poison (whether it was suicide or accidental poisoning was undetermined) [Morgan had found his name in the Public Record Office in Kew, West London. ] . This was supported by the fact that rat poison commonly contained cyanide which causes pulmonary congestion or chemical pneumonia; in addition, the place of birth Montagu's committee had given Martin was Cardiff in Wales.
The biggest problem with the theory that the body was Glyndwr Michael is that he died on January 28 1943 and they knew that they could not keep a body "pristine" for more than 3 months without freezing which would have been a dead give away at the autopsy.

My understanding is that Glyndwr Michael was indeed the first choice in bodies but the sinking of the HMS Dasher (27 March 1943) provided Montagu with a genuinely "drowned" fresh body which is why there was a mad dash up to Scotland by both Montagu and HMS Seraph which whould have been unnecessary as the original body was in London.

There is also further coroborating evidence in that the three personal items listed on the body of Major Martin were identified recently as the three items that were always carried by the HMS Dasher crewman by his surviving sister.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...534001763.html