WW II Production, Personnel, etc, - Page 2




 
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November 23rd, 2011  
84RFK
 
 
While the Russians (or Soviets back then) were mostly enthusiastic over the supplies they got from the western allies, the picture is still a bit glorified.
Last year a batch of US manufactured Thompson submachineguns was offered on the market here, all greased up, stored and never used.
Turned out they were supplied along with US manufactured tanks shipped to the USSR during WW II and never issued to the tank crews due to a complete lack of ammo.
The .45 ACP wasn't exactly standard issue in the red army...

As for the Germans, they actually captured the French air force intact, and shipped the bulk of it to their allies, a majority ended up in Finland and was used against the USSR.
They also captured the French artillery intact, and made pretty good use of it.
And since they also captured France, and the factories that manufactured most of the French equipment (including tanks and trucks) they had no problem supplying spare parts and ammunition for the captured equipment either.

Have you ever heard of the Skoda works?
Before they focused on automobiles (post-war) they were one of the major weapons manufacturers in europe, and wouldn't you know, when Hitler invaded Checkoslovakia in 1938 he also gained full control over the Check weapons industry.
Do you have any idea about the ammount of artillery manufactured at the Skoda works from 1938 to 1944?
Add the number of artillery pieces taken from Check fortifications that was dismanteled and used in the Atlantic wall...you can't possibly imagine.
November 23rd, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
No the Germans did not capture the modern French planes, they flew to Africa before the capitulation (An H-75 would shoot down a Wildcat during Torch). Only the useless planes were left behind and sent to Finland.

Yes, the Soviets were quite stupid using the American supplies. They probably received the .45 ammo and stored it somewhere else. If they didn't all they had to do was ask for it. But it is even ironic that the soviets producing millions of PPSh-40 woulod ask for Thompsons (they only received what they ordered).
Roosevelt had to threaten Stalin with stopping all deliveries if he didn't start using the tens of thousands of trucks that were piling up in huge lots (Roosevelt received pictures of them and relayed them to Stalin). Only then did they start to reach ithe front in large numbers and be used with great effect.
The US had to make them, make the ships to transport them, pay for the crews in the ships and for the transportation in Iran, send the fuel, spares, etc, and the Soviets were not using them, so the Americans also had to make sure they were used! how stupid and lucky can you get?

Skoda production is included under Germany (Czechoslovakia was part of Germany).

Never has a modern army had so few pieces of artillery per man than in Barbarossa. Incredibly, there were fewer cannon and planes in the German army in Barbarossa than in the invasion of tiny France. Incredibly, the Romanian army had more cannon than the German army, although in most cases less modern. To put things in perspective, In barbarossa the Germans has 7,180 cannon, in France they had 7,300 cannon. In Barbarossa the Romanians had 8,100 cannon. The Soviets used 13,000 cannon alone in Stalingrad and 41,000 in Berlin.

There is a big difference bewteen fortification artillery and field artillery. In WW II the former was pretty useless, except when the attacker was stupid enough to approach it as in Sevastopol. Field artillery killed more men than machine guns, airplanes, rifles, etc, and the Germans never had enough of any kind of it, hell they didn't even have enough mortars or machine guns or trucks at any time. That's is why the achievements in Africa and the USSr are so remarkable.
December 11th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
Between September 1, 1939 and June 22, 1941 the USSR supplied Germany about 1.5 million tons of oil and a similar amount of grain and large quantities of chromium, phosphorous and manganese ores, platinum, etc, mostly on credit, so that when Germany invaded the USSR, Germany owed the USSR a considerable sum (Stalin supplied Hitler and helped to finance the invasions in western Europe, the battle of Britain, Greece, operation Barbarossa, etc,).
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December 12th, 2011  
lljadw
 
These are the usual useless,not sourced and out of context figures .
About the oil :1.5 million tons of oil,that's giving the impression of being big,but,
11.5 million is unlikely :1939 was 300000,1940 700000,and there are no official figures for 1941
2 Whatever:as the Germans got 8.5 million ton in 1939,300000 tons were less than 4 %,and,as they got 6.1 million tons in 1940(most of them produced in Germany),700000 were less than 12 %,in 1941,Germany got 8.1 million tons,thus,the unsourced 500000 tons would be some 6 %
December 12th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
What is your problem? Your also unreferenced figures rather confirm the 1.5 million.
12% of Hitler's oil and on credit, during the invasion of Norway, France, Belgium, Holland, BoB, etc, seems like decisive help. 6% the year of Greece, Africa and Barbarossa seems also quite helpful.
December 13th, 2011  
lljadw
 
"seems"
December 13th, 2011  
lljadw
 
My source is :Why was Germany short on oil . on the Axis History Forum
AHF viewtopicphp?f=66
The oil imports from the SU had only a minor importance,the same for the oil imports from Romania;during the whole war,the majority of Germany's oil was coming from Germany (domestic production and synthetic production):
1940:4 million tons on a total of 6.1 million
1941:4.8 million on 8.1
1942:5.6 on 7.6
1943:6.5 on 9
1944:4.7 on 5.8
after the oil imports from the SU stopped in june 1941,the German oil imports increased .
German oil imports(first figure non Soviet imports ,mostly from Romania,second figure :Soviet imports)
1940: 0.9 million /O.7 million
1941: 1.5 million /0.5 million (=an unproved figure)
1942:1.6 million
1943:1.9 million
1944:O.8 million
December 13th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
Romania was allied with France and only aligned itself with Hitler when Stalin invaded Bessarabia. Synthetic oil production started much later.
Again 12% in the most critical period of German expansion is far from trivial.
December 13th, 2011  
42RM
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by samneanderthal
Romania was allied with France...
Is was a Treaty of Friendship and was disbanded completely in 1938.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...Little-Entente

Quote:
Originally Posted by samneanderthal
Synthetic oil production started much later
Synthetic Oil Production in Germany
Interrogation of Dr. Butefisch
British Intelligence Objectives Sub-Committee

Dr. Butefisch was asked in the first place to give an outline of the production of synthetic oil in Germany. Dr. Butefisch referred to the start of production in 1927 at Leuna with an output of 300,000 tons per annum at first, subsequently increased to 500,000. It was intended that half of the whole of the oil used in Germany should be synthetic. In 1934-1935 under the "Vierjahres Plan" there were started up additional plants in the following order:
1.Bohlen
2.Mageburg
3.Schwarzheide
4. Zeitz

http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/prima.../bios_1697.htm
December 13th, 2011  
samneanderthal
 
The 4 year plan contained a lot of wishful thinking that didn't come even close to fruition.
According to your data Germany imported 2.1 million tons in 1940, out of which 700,000 came from Stalin, so the USSR provided 33% of the imported oil that years and on credit.
Your reference states that in 1940 synthetic oil production was 4.3 million tons in 1940 yet your data above mention that total production (synthetic + natural in the Reich) was 4 million, so dr Butefisch seems to be full of hot air.
 


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