Originally Posted by doddsy2978

Yep! Heard this about the old Sterling Sub-machinegun as issued to the British forces previously - "had a job stopping a rabbit" is what I was told - its calibre? 9mm - the same round as used in the Browning 9 Milly pistol also issued to the Brit Forces.

Part of the problem with the 9mm is the style of ammo we have to use, FMJ. If the use of a hollow point or other high transfer designed bullet. THe same can be said about the 5.56mm, it has a tendency to have non-stopping hits, use a ballistic tip bullet in the 5.56 and that would change, but it is against the Geneva Conventions which dictate FMJ or solid only.

Originally Posted by Samurai_Zero

In Iraq they shouldn't use beretta, its a disgrace for a soldier, what you really need in is a desert eagle .50 cal or at least a .44 . 3 shots from a beretta couldn't bring an idiot down,but 3 shot from either of desert eagles can. Also at least one man in a squad should have a backpack-fed
Xm-314 minigun, it takes a while to fire but his squad mates can defend him while it starts to fire and then he'll unleash h**l.

Mini-Guns cannot be carried by a soldier or Marine, it is impossible, recoil from the gun is over 270 lbs when firing and very impractical when a 240 or 60 will do just fine. Leave the minis to the helos.

A 9mm at a range of 30 feet is enough to drop a man 9 times out of ten. The second shot has 99/100 to stop him...What more do you need? I dont think officers in combat areas should carry a 9mm or 0.45. They should be carrying the M4.

Well said.
Also the fact that Special Ops teams who raid buildings almost unanimously carry the MP-5. Shootouts happen at very short ranges so what you really want is a highly controllable weapon that won't kick around everywhere that has a good rate of fire. Also preferrable that the bullet not sail through the guy because then it could hit hostages.
Remember guys. Everyone seems to forget this so often but bigger bullet does NOT mean a better weapon. last night I was watching a show about Israeli guns and a special ops guy says that when the fight goes ugly, a 7.62mm bullet becomes hard to manage (referring to the FAL) and in his modified Galil, he stuck with the 5.56mm.

This isn't off topic by the way!!!
Because you can't say the MP-5 is a crap weapon because it's 9mm and you can't say the M-16 is crap because it's 5.56mm.

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

A 9mm at a range of 30 feet is enough to drop a man 9 times out of ten. The second shot has 99/100 to stop him...What more do you need? I dont think officers in combat areas should carry a 9mm or 0.45. They should be carrying the M4.

special ops guy says that when the fight goes ugly, a 7.62mm bullet becomes hard to manage (referring to the FAL) and in his modified Galil, he stuck with the 5.56mm.

That guy looks like a wierdo....With the beard and stuff...And his strange english...."Yes, this gun, also good one. Very good one"

Sorry,could not help my self...

They should try using the berretta m93R instead of the m9, these pistol have 20rd mags with semiauto or 3-shot burst fire, come with a folding foreward grip and a ROF of 1100rpm on burst fire. This might be useful in quickly killing someone before they kill you with the quick burst fire and the foreward grip that makes accuracy and recoil easier to control.

You also have to think about cost. I think for the marginal advantage it gives, it's not worth the cost.
That's off topic though.
THe M-9 I hear isn't a very popular handgun because of reliability issues.

Maybe ur rite but they should dump the berreta What the US should do is to stick back to the M1911, It is known for its reliability, serviceability, simplicity in the world, but just because of the small 8,7 rounds in the magazine doesn't mean u should dump it, instead improve the magazine, Im sure well be able to squeeze in more rounds to make it better with a new magazine.Hey with a .45ACP and a velocity good enough to drop someone but low enough not to go through and hit a friendly, M1911 was good, berreta is $H!#. Why not use the M1911 if the maker of the M1911 made some of the M16s we use.

The USMC uses a modified 1911 doesn't it?

Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck

The USMC uses a modified 1911 doesn't it?

It is available for certain units.

As for the 9 to 45 issue, the muzzle energy is close to the same with both rounds, the issue with the 9 was penetration, not energy. The 0.377" bullet penetrates more than the 0.45" bullet. It comes down to the transfer of that energy, what I stated before. You will transfer more energy to the target with the larger crosssection, you get the same energy transfer and lower penetration with a JHP since the bullet expands.