World Terror Leaders want you to vote Democratic!

Sandy

I respect you opinion as well.

First of all I am not a democrat, technically I'm Republican although I doubt many other Republicans would welcome me. The reason I will vote Democrat is twofold.

First, I really HATE what the Republican party has become. Its greedy, its corrupt, it cannot do anything right, drunk on its own power, and frankly there are so very nasty people who are in power right now. I mean forget about differences of values and ideas, these people are just mean.

Secondly, the Democrats have issues that I 100% agree with. Universal Health Care, a real urge to curb spending, and the immediate reversal of several Bush policies (like Kyoto and Iraq) that have been disasterous for our country. I also support the Democrats wish to open investigations into this White House, espically the Vice President, whom I think is one of the evil men I have ever seen in office.
 
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If the preponderance of American voters want the Democrats in, then that is what will happen. That's our system and it works. Isn't it great?
 
Universal Healthcare would ruin the medical industry...Much like how domestic auto manufactures are getting ruined by union. Notice that foreign car makers that have shops in America are doing great, no unions...

Universal Healthcare and Unions are socialistic by nature and do not allow for growth or innovation, because well what is the point if you all earn the same...I mean it is not like everyone in America cant get medical attention when it is needed...
 
MontyB said:
Seems unfortunate that your method of "discussion" seems to be based around insulting anyone that doesnt agree with you but hey when objectivity and fact goes out the window whats left right.
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Get a grip Dude. Insults? How about factual evidence, you have none and I can post as much as you want.

If it's the truth it isn't an insult.
 
Senior Chief said:
Get a grip Dude. Insults? How about factual evidence, you have none and I can post as much as you want.

If it's the truth it isn't an insult.
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You know if it was just me you took this approach with I probably would just let it slide but its not, its mmarsh, chief bones, myself, strongbow and anyone else that has disagreed with you. Here's an exercise for you find anyone here that you have disagreed with that hasnt ended up in some acrimonius slanging match with you claiming some dubious moral high ground and insisting you were attacked.

What it boils down to is that you you can claim to be the victim of people with "agenda's" all you like but people are not going to let you or anyone else win arguments by a virtual attempt to shout over top of them.

But in an effort to get a point across here is a very accurate post from an american (so he must in your books be allowed an opinion).
NOT Uncle Sam & NOT poster boy for America ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senior Chief
Coming from someone with a dubious profile I'd say that your opinion seems to be biased and possibly filled with Anti-American sentiment.

Senior Chief
I have tried to stay out of this discussion ... but ...

First off, whether these people are on the outside looking in (or) a civilian who has NEVER served in the military - they have a right to their opinions (even if they are wrong).

AND - it seems to me, that it is you (Senior Chief), that started the name calling and flaming because these people didn't/wouldn't agree with YOUR opinions. You once accused me of doing this, but I have come to the conclusion that you can NOT/will NOT allow someone else to post an opinion different than yours, and not become negative in your comments and confrontational in demeanor.

I do NOT make this comment to start another war - I make it because I don't believe you even realise that this is what you are doing.

Further - just because someone does NOT agree with your comments, doesn't mean they are anti-American. You are NOT Uncle Sam (and) you are NOT the poster boy for America.

You accused others of being biased, and I guess this is a good description for all of us
(including [especially] YOU).

As far as Strongbow's comment Quote:
"Their Commander-in Chief is looking rather weak and directionless".
I couldn't agree more (my opinion). And - I am NOT an outsider looking in, NOR am I a civilian who has never served in the military.

__________________
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W. R. B. (Chief Bones) FCC(SW) USN(RET)
Midland, MI 48642
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So once again I will ask that we take a step back and realise that neither of us have any respect for the other, neither of us are going to win (in fact the only real outcome will be bannings) and neither of us will end up winning all facts that are never going to change. So how about we call it a draw and MOVE ON thus sparing everyone else this nonsense.

If this request doesnt meet your "approval" then all I can really suggest is that moderators step in because I am certain no one else has any interest in this rubbish.

Incidently here was your reply to Chiefs post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chief Bones
Senior Chief
I have tried to stay out of this discussion ..

.

Then by all means, stay out of it. Your opinion is just as biased as the next liberals. We don't agree and will most likely never agree.

My vote is for you to not get into a discussion if you feel you are going to start calling names.
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What does that tell you?
 
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This whole thread seems to be somewhat faulty. Terrorists say that we should vote for Republicans, so we should? Now I know thats not what you all are saying, but I think that everyone should just ignore their comments, since the source is very questionable.

I personally intend to vote Democrat, because I tend to agree with them economically, socially, and in some other matters. I believe that the Republicans have somewhat messed things up, and will give the Dems a shot at it. Im not a big fan of Bush (yes Senior, not Pres. Bush or whatever), I think that he is representative of the majority (or if not the majority, then atleast those in power), and that will stop me from voting for them.

Barack Obama 2008

As for the issue with Senior.........*sigh* From where I am sitting, you seem to get in fights with a lot of people, and all of them tend to say the same thing. I personally disagree with you, and agree with what Monty is saying. I find you intollerant of other's beliefs, and insulting in debate.
 
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Donkey said:
Universal Healthcare would ruin the medical industry...Much like how domestic auto manufactures are getting ruined by union. Notice that foreign car makers that have shops in America are doing great, no unions...

Universal Healthcare and Unions are socialistic by nature and do not allow for growth or innovation, because well what is the point if you all earn the same...I mean it is not like everyone in America cant get medical attention when it is needed...
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Donkey, no disrespect intended, but you have absolutely no clue of what your talking about. I have lived 28 years in the US, and 9 in France. So I can tell you from personal experiance that UHC is a FAR better system. The only ones who stand to lose out are the HMO's, and after paying their premiums for several years I can tell you thats a good thing.

There are 45 Million Americans who have no medical insurence at all (cannot afford it). Our system is one of the worst in the world short of having no medical care at all.
 
I will be voting for the individual in the upcoming midterm election with some very conspicuous exceptions. I will be voting for the Democratic candidate in the House and Senate races. I have had all I can stand of a government that is completely dominated by the Republican Party and that no longer represents ALL the people. From a Whitehouse (controlled by what I consider to be an utter boob and idiot), to a House and Senate (that are nothing more than rubber-stamps for a man who I can't wait to see leave office) - it is way past time for a change. Our standing in the world before other nations is at an all time low. Any prestige we had prior to GW's election to the office of President, has been destroyed by his decisions visa-vis Iraq and other foreign policy shenanigans. This doesn't even include his domestic policies (which I consider to be anti-worker).

Aside from the Whitehouse occupant, our legislature has accomplished less than nothing. They have presided over an attack on our rights and freedoms (unlike any attack in history), and are proud of themselves because of it, and tell you so at every opportunity.

What is so sad, is the fact that there were so many occasions for them to have shined ... and ... they ignored every single one of them and failed to represent the people that elected them to office, in favor of partisan politics.

No new policy on illegal aliens, no new policy to help resolve the Iraq situation, no new legislation to help resolve America's Social Security problems, no new legislation to address the many complaints about political campaign funding, a war on terror policy that doesn't really place any program in place to seal our borders to terrorists and terrorism ......... on an on and on - I could take up three or four pages of legal paper just listing areas that were NOT addressed by this legislature (or) were complete and utter failures.

For this reason (and the fact GW needs to have a check and balance against his powers to force him to obey the law and adhere to the US Constitution), I will do my part to take back our government so that ALL of the people can be represented once more.


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Senior Chief's posts - no comment.
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WNxRogue said:
This whole thread seems to be somewhat faulty. Terrorists say that we should vote for Republicans, so we should? Now I know thats not what you all are saying, but I think that everyone should just ignore their comments, since the source is very questionable.

I personally intend to vote Democrat, because I tend to agree with them economically, socially, and in some other matters. I believe that the Republicans have somewhat messed things up, and will give the Dems a shot at it. Im not a big fan of Bush (yes Senior, not Pres. Bush or whatever), I think that he is representative of the majority (or if not the majority, then atleast those in power), and that will stop me from voting for them.

Barack Obama 2008

As for the issue with Senior.........*sigh* From where I am sitting, you seem to get in fights with a lot of people, and all of them tend to say the same thing. I personally disagree with you, and agree with what Monty is saying. I find you intollerant of other's beliefs, and insulting in debate.
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I can use my 401K as an indicator of what is happening with our economy. From '95 through '00 the growth of my 401K was minimal. It started growing after GWB was inaugurated. It took a 35% dump after 9/11, as did most all of the 401K's (mine was even in very safe funds). Since the end of a two year period when there wasn't much happening with the economy I've changed jobs and transferred my 401K. This company matches less than my previous company. In a little over a year my 401K has doubled.

I think I'll vote more republican than democrat.

I do know that if you go into the election voting a straight ticket you will be doing yourself and the country a disservice. Vote for the best person for the job and I'm here to tell you it's not all republicans nor all democrats.
 
Chief Bones said:
I will be voting for the individual in the upcoming midterm election with some very conspicuous exceptions. I will be voting for the Democratic candidate in the House and Senate races. I have had all I can stand of a government that is completely dominated by the Republican Party and that no longer represents ALL the people. From a Whitehouse (controlled by what I consider to be an utter boob and idiot), to a House and Senate (that are nothing more than rubber-stamps for a man who I can't wait to see leave office) - it is way past time for a change. Our standing in the world before other nations is at an all time low. Any prestige we had prior to GW's election to the office of President, has been destroyed by his decisions visa-vis Iraq and other foreign policy shenanigans. This doesn't even include his domestic policies (which I consider to be anti-worker).

Aside from the Whitehouse occupant, our legislature has accomplished less than nothing. They have presided over an attack on our rights and freedoms (unlike any attack in history), and are proud of themselves because of it, and tell you so at every opportunity.

What is so sad, is the fact that there were so many occasions for them to have shined ... and ... they ignored every single one of them and failed to represent the people that elected them to office, in favor of partisan politics.

No new policy on illegal aliens, no new policy to help resolve the Iraq situation, no new legislation to help resolve America's Social Security problems, no new legislation to address the many complaints about political campaign funding, a war on terror policy that doesn't really place any program in place to seal our borders to terrorists and terrorism ......... on an on and on - I could take up three or four pages of legal paper just listing areas that were NOT addressed by this legislature (or) were complete and utter failures.

For this reason (and the fact GW needs to have a check and balance against his powers to force him to obey the law and adhere to the US Constitution), I will do my part to take back our government so that ALL of the people can be represented once more.
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What you are failing to understand is that several of the problems you tag to this administration and those elected officials are not new problems. You are expecting everything from the republicans and nothing from the democrats that got us to where we are.

Think about it.
 
Senior Chief

Several of the issues pre-date Bush, but many do not. Iraq for example, (the largest problem) is entirely the fault of the Republicans and no spin is going to change it. They wanted this war so badly they were prepared to pay any price. Well the bill is now due, and now its time they pay.

Secondly the Economy is not just centered about the stock market. Its true its doing well, but the other economic indicators are only not so good. Wages are down, cost of living is up. Fuel prices are extremely high (and will go higher the moment the election is over), GDP is down, Consumer confidence and spending are both down, consumer saving is at a low, and on and on. Worse the forcast for the near future is several shades of bleak.

Back to subject...

Normally I would agree with Bones and vote on the individual. But the GOP has proven to be so disasterous I will hold up my nose and vote all blue, that includes Hillary, whom I am not very fond of.
 
mmarsh said:
Senior Chief

Several of the issues pre-date Bush, but many do not. Iraq for example, (the largest problem) is entirely the fault of the Republicans and no spin is going to change it. They wanted this war so badly they were prepared to pay any price. Well the bill is now due, and now its time they pay.

Secondly the Economy is not just centered about the stock market. Its true its doing well, but the other economic indicators are only not so good. Wages are down, cost of living is up. Fuel prices are extremely high (and will go higher the moment the election is over), GDP is down, Consumer confidence and spending are both down, consumer saving is at a low, and on and on. Worse the forcast for the near future is several shades of bleak.

Back to subject...

Normally I would agree with Bones and vote on the individual. But the GOP has proven to be so disasterous I will hold up my nose and vote all blue, that includes Hillary, whom I am not very fond of.
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You seem to forget a little matter from 1991's UN resolutions requiring Iraq to submit to weapons inspections and observe a no-fly zone. Those resolutions were broken frequently and the Iraqi Airforce attacked U.S. and coalition aircraft, which was considered an act of war and Clinton did nothing about it. Your stance seems to be ignoring the history of the Clinton administration.
 
So that was to merit a full scale invasion and occupation of Iraq? There are other countries that have flaunted UN rules. The largest right now is Isreal (over 60 violations). Are we going to attack them?

My recollection of the Clinton era is quite fine, here is a timeline of everything Clinton "didnt do". Read from 1993 to Jan 2001

http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/iraqaction.cfm
 
It just don't wash ...

Another little matter that seems to be ignored is:

Who died and made America the policemen of the world? If the UN can NOT or will NOT stand behind their own mandates, why is it the job of the United States to ignore the wishes of the rest of the UN and unilaterally enforce that which the UN won't? I seem to remember a whole slew of our membership that have pointed their fingers at the UN as a bunch of 'paper' Tigers, and a group that seems to have outlived it's usefulness that needs to be either disbanded or completely revamped.



Also, please don't throw the "Saddam was a danger to the United States" in our faces. This has been disproved by every single committee that was tasked with determining the 'real' situation facing us in pre-invasion Iraq. It just don't wash.

For this reason, and a whole host of other reasons I have already enumerated, a whole bunch of Republicans have got to go.

By the way, the harangue of "a vote for the Democrats is a vote for the terrorists" also doesn't wash. The Democrats are not such ogres that they would standby and allow America to be attacked, anymore than the Republicans would.

That card has been overplayed to the point that it is on a par with "just you wait - your father will be home shortly". It was designed to cover up the very real problems that still face us in Iraq.

It was blatantly false then ... and ... it is blatantly false now.

A glance at http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/iraqaction.cfm is just ONE instance of where the Republicans are wrong in their characterization of the Democrats response to the UN mandates.
 
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Chief Bones said:
Another little matter that seems to be ignored is:

Who died and made America the policemen of the world? If the UN can NOT or will NOT stand behind their own mandates, why is it the job of the United States to ignore the wishes of the rest of the UN and unilaterally enforce that which the UN won't? I seem to remember a whole slew of our membership that have pointed their fingers at the UN as a bunch of 'paper' Tigers, and a group that seems to have outlived it's usefulness that needs to be either disbanded or completely revamped.



Yada yada yada, regurgitated vomit about how I hate the republicans and hold them solely responsible for the world situation.
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During your years in the Military you were part of that police force. We have been the #1 country for go to situations when there has been a world crisis. Which part of history have you forgotten? With out our money and our and our military the world would be in a much worse condition than we are now in.

Deny the facts if you want to, but those that have lived during the past 50 or so years have seen it time and time again. We fund the U.N. and when there is a problem who gets the call? (Just a hint - - - It's not Ghostbusters!
 
I agree that we need to fight this war, but I can't see any kind of plan to win it. Currently its a war of attrition. This "enomy" has and will always win this kind of war. With things going as they are now, I fear that we will ultimatly lose no matter what.
 
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I hate to say it, but I think we have already lost. I just dont see any conclusion to the Iraq mess that doesn't end in disaster.
 
mmarsh said:
I hate to say it, but I think we have already lost. I just dont see any conclusion to the Iraq mess that doesn't end in disaster.
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You are basing your response and you judgement of the situation on the media's reports on what is happening. You don't seem to want to see the positive things that are happening.

Take for instance, a few yars ago there weren't attacks like we are seeing now, why do you think that is? The people were under the rule of a ruthless dictator that would kill you for the slightest infraction of his laws. He thought, I emphasize the word thought, that his daughters husbands might be willing to back a movement to overthrow him. He didn't exile them, he didn't imprision them, he had them murdered. He felt that those in the North were planning an overthrow of the government. He used WMD's on them and killed thousands.

The only way we lose this war is if the Iraqi's do not have the opportunity to conduct their country as a free nation. If the country is divided into three seperate states with each faction as it's own leaders and they are run as a democracy it's still a win.
 
Senior,

Im not sure how your comment on "media's reports" of the war in Iraq have absolutly anything to do with your statements. The NIE entitled "Trends for Global Terrorism" http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/Declassified_NIE_Key_Judgments.pdf
Show that we have created an entire host of problems for the "war on terror", which was our excuse for going in to Afganistan. As for Iraq, we went in to stop WMDs (which there were none) and tp eliminate terrorist threats. I completely agree with mmarsh here.
 
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