Originally Posted by Bacara

no i have sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kontakt-5

it is proof to the latests M1A2 rounds like the M939A3

While i do not wish to target sources Wikipedia is not the most reliable of them, not to mention russian military has a long history of bloated claims that were blown together with their hardware in Chechenya and Afganistan.

Originally Posted by BritinAfrica

LOL, now your saying Sherman is a liar?
How to win friends in influence people lol



Quite frankly, he did shoot your argument down in flames regarding the RPG7.

Were you there to witness an attack by an RPG 7? No and neither was he. So, arguing with you is like aguing with children. I'll be your myth buster.

Originally Posted by Rorke

While i do not wish to target sources Wikipedia is not the most reliable of them, not to mention russian military has a long history of bloated claims that were blown together with their hardware in Chechenya and Afganistan.

Thank you. My point exactly. Plus the US Army does not post any classified information regarding weapon systems. That gives us an edge and keeps the enemy guesing.

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra

Thank you. My point exactly. Plus the US Army does not post any classified information regarding weapon systems. That gives us an edge and keeps the enemy guesing.

Well he is right in the fact that RPG-7 can mission kill any tank, in fact during the Israeli action in Lebanon many Merkavas ended up dead in the road with tracks and wheels mangled by an RPG-7 shot but the hull is completely impervious, in fact there's a vid on youtube somewhere where a Merkava IV take's over sixteen side shots from RPG-7s and RPG-9s coming out just fine.

As to the pictures the first one indeed fell off the cliff and the second picture is the result of a massive IED explosion directly beneath the tank, there was an article about it on CNN i believe, there was a pile of mortar shells, aerial bombs and god knows what else all wired to blow.

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra

Were you there to witness an attack by an RPG 7? No and neither was he. So, arguing with you is like aguing with children. I'll be your myth buster.

You don't have a valid argument old chap, you lost what little credibility you had by accusing British tankers of cowardice by your “With the crew cowering inside”, then stated that Sherman was telling lies, with half truths THEN your "false crap" statement.

Were you there when the Challenger was stranded? No you wasn't, neither was I.

I'm not claiming I was anywhere, yet you claim by your outlandish statements that you know everything there is to know about anti tank weaponry and armour. Your highly obnoxious attitude that everything you say is 100% correct is ludicrous in the extreme.

As for your “aguing” with children, I have heard five year olds who were a lot more informative, concise and lucid then you are. Your expertise and command of the English language and spelling is atrocious to say the least, doesn't your computer have a spell checker? If it has, then I suggest that you learn how to use it.

Be my myth buster? LOL I'd take anything you say with a huge pinch of salt and demand a second opinion. In conclusion, you don't have anything to teach Challenger crews, myself or anyone else for that matter.


Whats the matter, don't you like the fact that American tanks as well as just about every tank built including the Challenger2 is not 100% impervious to attack?


I thought you were an intelligent chap, able to get into an informative and civil discussion. It seems I was somewhat mistaken.

Were you there to witness an attack by an RPG 7? No and neither was he. So, arguing with you is like aguing with children. I'll be your myth buster.

I think you may want to use better manners, and a little more respect. Look into my profile and understand what I am and am not trained, versed and capable in.

RPG 7 and RPG 29 are both capable anti tank weapons. These weapons can penetrate any tank in the world, given they are fired at the correct angle, at the right place on the tank. Im not saying this as a theory, Im saying this as a fact. Think over every part of the M1A2, Leopard 2A6, Merkava MK4, let alone the Bradly and other IFV. If you can honestly tell me every area is protected to 700mm RHS, tell me Im wrong. If not, which you cant, apologize for calling me a child.

As to the pictures the first one indeed fell off the cliff and the second picture is the result of a massive IED explosion directly beneath the tank, there was an article about it on CNN i believe, there was a pile of mortar shells, aerial bombs and god knows what else all wired to blow.

Ah, thats on another thread...

[quote=SHERMAN;468896
RPG 7 and RPG 29 are both capable anti tank weapons. These weapons can penetrate any tank in the world, given they are fired at the correct angle, at the right place on the tank. Im not saying this as a theory, Im saying this as a fact. Think over every part of the M1A2, Leopard 2A6, Merkava MK4, let alone the Bradly and other IFV. If you can honestly tell me every area is protected to 700mm RHS, tell me Im wrong. If not, which you cant, apologize for calling me a child.

[/quote]
As a fact neither RPG 7 nor RPG 29 are capable of hull penetration in regards to the latest tanks, not the sides, not the rear.

There's pictures out there of Merkavas who had virtually every external system rpged off rendered immobile and having the mg mount blown off but the hull proper was left intact and thats regardless of the angle.

I am aware of Russians giving specific penetration values but given that there was not one incident where an israeli Merkava had an rpg missile penetrate into its interior i'm inclined to put these values in the same place as so many more russian claims of technical capacity, on a propaganda b******t shelf.

(Mind you there were Merkavas blown open using AT missiles but not RPG 7s or 29s. )

As a fact neither RPG 7 nor RPG 29 are capable of hull penetration in regards to the latest tanks, not the sides, not the rear.

There's pictures out there of Merkavas who had virtually every external system rpged off rendered immobile and having the mg mount blown off but the hull proper was left intact and thats regardless of the angle.

I am aware of Russians giving specific penetration values but given that there was not one incident where an israeli Merkava had an rpg missile penetrate into its interior i'm inclined to put these values in the same place as so many more russian claims of technical capacity, on a propaganda b******t shelf.

Thats fine. However, Im not talking about russian propganda, Im talking about very good info. And also you are wrong about the penetration. No tank in the world is armored up to 700mm RHS in every single spot, it would be far to heavy to move. Im not talking aout of a vacume here IVe seen tanks that were hit. It is true that in most cases RPG 7 and even 29 will not penetrate, but some cases they will. Penetration is a statistic games and sometimes they roll double 6s...

Originally Posted by SHERMAN

Thats fine. However, Im not talking about russian propganda, Im talking about very good info. And also you are wrong about the penetration. No tank in the world is armored up to 700mm RHS in every single spot, it would be far to heavy to move. Im not talking aout of a vacume here IVe seen tanks that were hit. It is true that in most cases RPG 7 and even 29 will not penetrate, but some cases they will. Penetration is a statistic games and sometimes they roll double 6s...

The cases where they do penetrate can only be classified as freak accidents rather than a right angle/right distance standard, as for 700mm RHS for RPG 7 treat it with a grain of salt remember that armor is composition as well as thickness so a 2A6 turret will be levels of magnitude above a welded T-90s turret, thus far i have seen one documented case where an Abrams was actually penetrated just above the track so its more of a freak hit than anything else.

The discussion is moot though since you can still render a tank useless if you put out the optics or tracks and that can be done even with a WW2 Bazooka ( of course its easier said than done ).

Lisaten, RHS is RHS, these RPGS were captured and tested and when I say 700mm RHS I base it on very good info. I obviously cant show you a source but trust me.