Wood.....Bullets.....??? - Page 2




 
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November 12th, 2004  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron
there would have to be little muzzle energy not to shatter the bullet most likely not a very powerfull gun.
Think of a 50cal with wooden bullets you'd have alot of sharpnel
I think that most of these type rounds would carry a lighter load than metal bullets. There are all sorts of wood that would stand up to those pressures. Desert Ironwood, Bois D`Arc, Rose woods, Ebony, and many other rainforest woods. Most of these are so dense that they sink in water.The wood portion could also be made into sabots which would shatter on impact causing terrible internal wounds.
January 19th, 2005  
EOD
 
As far as I understand here the use of wooden projectiles was suspected but not confirmed.

The use of wooden projectiles would cause the following problems:
- Wood, due t its specific weight would loose very soon velocity and energy and so with limitings its use
- Since wood is a natural "product" it is never growing homogenous, means there are different densities in different parts of one piece of wood. This will cause the point of gravity of the projectile to be different from projectile to projectile, making it very difficult to keep a shot grouping on an acceptable level. Beside this it will be near impossible to get a constant projectile weight what will increase the effect above
- Additionaly wood is absorbing water, even from humid air, this will cause it to swell and give different friction characteruistics inside tha barrel and also increase the weight leading again to even worse shot groups

One of the very few that ever used wood to shoot in terms of a projectile were the Fins on their short range 7.62x39 (AK-47, AKM caliber) cartridge.
It was a projectile jacket that contained a wooden core that's upper half was not covered by the jacket. This design was not very successfull and was abandoned very soon after adoption likely for reasons mentioned above.
The others that ever used wood in projectiles were the Danes in the early 1900s with their Schuboe pistol in 11.35mm. Their projectiles had full metal jacket projectiles with wooden cores and also with aluminum cores. The pistol and its ammo never became famous and are some odd thing in history.
The last design being really used is the British 1.5 inch baton round for riot control but this is more a unstabilized "thing" (cylinder) that is accellerated and has no real characteristics of a projectile.

Not to be confused with real projectiles are the old style blank rounds and grenade propelling cartridges which are hollow wooden projectiles which break apart upon firing. The wooden projectiles were used with these rounds to assure proper feeding of the cartridges.
The US did not use this system in the last 70 years and I'm not sure if they did before.

So far I have never seen real working cartridges with wooden projectiles which were meant to be fired at a target and I would be surprised if it will ever happen.
January 19th, 2005  
Redleg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD
So far I have never seen real working cartridges with wooden projectiles which were meant to be fired at a target and I would be surprised if it will ever happen.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've tried wooden bullets on a rebuilt M98 Mauser rifle (7.62x63mm) some years ago, and they did indeed work on short ranges (50-100meters).
But the accuracy wasn't too great over 50 meters, and they were especially affected by strong wind.

The bullets were meant for safe training in areas where you couldn't risk that they missed their targets, and could hit people objects behind the target area...
I believe they didn't pose a (serious) threat over 150-200 meters.
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January 19th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
The US and a few other countries used teak wood as a riot round called a baton. It was meant to be skipped in front of the crowd and hit at knee level. I also saw where they had caused damage and death when some skipped head high. The chunk of wood looked to be about 5 inches long. Hard and even soft rubber took their place.
Per the History Channel. Here is a source for gas fired wooden bullets. Check out their product list while you're there.


http://www.ozarkmtns.com/less-lethal...s/als3705W.htm

http://www.samcoglobal.com/ammo.html

See "all's fair in war?" close to the bottom.
http://www.skylighters.org/memories/reunion99/

More wooden bullets in war.
http://www.trailblazersww2.org/divis...en_bullets.htm

Another.
http://www.usafa.af.mil/dfsel/sl3/stalag/bullet.html
January 19th, 2005  
EuroSpike
 
"One of the very few that ever used wood to shoot in terms of a projectile were the Fins on their short range 7.62x39 (AK-47, AKM caliber) cartridge.
It was a projectile jacket that contained a wooden core that's upper half was not covered by the jacket. This design was not very successfull and was abandoned very soon after adoption likely for reasons mentioned above."

We use excersise cartridges "paukkupatruuna" (Platzpatrone in german) wich have blue wooden bullets and while using them crusher must be attached to barrel's muzzle to stop and crush bullets and give enough power for weapon to get loaded. They are not live rounds and can't be used as combat rounds.
January 19th, 2005  
bushpig1998
 
 
I remember hearing some comments on history channel regarding German SS troops using wooden bullets - to inflict nasty wounds on enemies. A disabled enemy soldier is worth 3 soldiers total. Can't find sources though.
January 20th, 2005  
EOD
 
Who ever stated that wrote his own history.
I'm a member of the European Cartridge Research Association and additionally know pelnty of guys dealing with particular German WWII SAA ammo 24 hrs a day and there are 2 books on that subject and nobody ever has seen something like that. Sounds much like propaganda.

The reasons aginst wooden projectiles mentioned above are still valid.

Think there is a fair chance that some guys beeing wounded in combat (regardless where) were hit by wooden splinters from trees or barricades and basing on their little knowledge on the subject they start telling stories about what they think what happened.
January 20th, 2005  
EOD
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroSpike
"One of the very few that ever used wood to shoot in terms of a projectile were the Fins on their short range 7.62x39 (AK-47, AKM caliber) cartridge.
It was a projectile jacket that contained a wooden core that's upper half was not covered by the jacket. This design was not very successfull and was abandoned very soon after adoption likely for reasons mentioned above."

We use excersise cartridges "paukkupatruuna" (Platzpatrone in german) wich have blue wooden bullets and while using them crusher must be attached to barrel's muzzle to stop and crush bullets and give enough power for weapon to get loaded. They are not live rounds and can't be used as combat rounds.

Yes, I know what you mean but I wrote that they have a jacket and they are no blue or red wood blanks that are fired with a blank firing device. The one I described is a short range training round which has an unpainted wooden core protruding from the jacket.
The one I mean has seen service for an extreme short time and there will be very few Finnish army members that have ever seen them.
If someone likes to see a photo post your e-mail and I will send it.
January 20th, 2005  
EuroSpike
 
War is already totally lost at that time when bullets have to be maken of wood.
January 20th, 2005  
EOD
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroSpike
War is already totally lost at that time when bullets have to be maken of wood.
There was no war when the Fins did that