Will United States defend Taiwan against Chinese invasion? - Page 6




 
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August 29th, 2004  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redleg
Be very carefull about judging an entire country based only on what one person have posted....
Yes you are absolutely right, I shouldn't.

But if what I'm reading is correct, that China will use nukes if they start to lose the war then world is in trouble, because there is no way within the next 10 years ( maybe 20 ) that China can make a successful landing in Taiwan, so you know how its going to end up.
August 29th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
So the conclusion is:

USA should help creating peace btw the Taiwan Strait, not stirring troubles there by sending wrong messages to the taiwan leaders encouraging them to do silly things.

But anyway, China will have the final say about the taiwan issue, it is purely internal affair (like husband beating up the naughty wife the neigbour has no say there )
August 29th, 2004  
Chocobo_Blitzer
 
Yes I do! he's beating up my mistress! lol

But if what mr. frog says is true, and most Chinese believe taiwan is their naughty *****, then...... I'd say this Taiwan issue will be round' for awhile.
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August 29th, 2004  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFrog
But anyway, China will have the final say about the taiwan issue, it is purely internal affair (like husband beating up the naughty wife the neigbour has no say there )
I don't know about your country but here in the USA if the neighbour sees a husband beating up his wife they can call the police, even the wife can call the police, and the police can haul the husband to jail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocobo_Blitzer
Yes I do! he's beating up my mistress! lol
lol

This might be more of a correct assesment.
August 29th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
You see Flying Frog, the underlying problem is that the PRC has a very bad record of unprovoked violence. Nowhere is that more evident than with Tibet, which is still being brutalized in spite of everything. You're looking at millions dead in a country that didn't have that many millions to begin with. In that situation, the argument that its "part of China" is pretty weak since it never really was. It was subdued by only two different dynasties, but never was truly part of a Chinese nation. Just a colony of sorts. The PRC's record there is attrocious. So there's strike one.

Okay, so what of the Chinese record with their own people. The Tianemen Square massacres are too recent a memory for most people to trust China to play nice. Now the propaganda that the Chinese government spews out on that incident is that there was bloody revolution against the people of China and that it was bravely put down by the Chinese Army. A brave massacre against unarmed protesters with tanks and machine guns was the reality. All that for daring to think for themselves in an organized fashion. That's strike two.

Now the world is watching very closely to see how China handles the repatriation of Hong Kong. Don't doubt for one second, Taiwan is more interested than any other. If China runs par for their bloody course, Honk Kong becomes strike three.

Taiwan is in quite the predicament, aren't they? They know that China will throw a tantrum if any major world power recognizes them as an independent country. From what you've said, China is willing to go all the way to Nuclear Holocaust and destroy the entire human race, rather than allow Taiwan to openly declare that they are a separate country. The real nonsense in the PRC's propaganda is that "Taiwan belongs to the PRC and the people of China". The PRC never controlled it in their entire existence. Off and on, its been part of a Chinese empire for a very long time, depending on which Dynasty we're talking about. I don't know if that grants China the god given right to it.

Okay, so for an excellent parallel, lets take the United States. The world's big bully, as you like to call us. At about the same point in history as Taiwan became a separate entity, something very similar happened in the USA. The US Territory called Cuba voted and decided to discontinue being part of the United States. Then a strange thing happened. The United States does not invade nor do they make any fuss at all. They respected the Cuban people's right to determine their own destiny. Even when Cuba decided to ally itself with the enemies of the United States, when we could have just invaded them and forced them to rejoin, but we did not. The Bay of Pigs disaster was about as close as you come, but that was Cuban exiles being let back into Cuba and not the US Armed Forces. The policy always was and always will be that Cubans will determine Cuba's destiny. Cuba has held its own national identity for almost exactly the same amount of time as Taiwan. China is no more in control of Taiwan than the United States is in control of Cuba. China invading Taiwan would be exactly the same sort of scenario as the US invading Cuba. One single difference: The US doesn't throw tantrums when other nations recognize the independence of Cuba.
August 29th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Well, I really can understand you all said above, from your point of view, I really have no problem with that.

And the true conclusion about all this taiwan thing is actually:

1. Nobody can convince nobody. We'd better avoid those meaningless talks at all.

2. It is a cruel world, like it has always been, the bigger fist decides the fate.

So, the final showdown is:
Taiwan declares independence -> China shows no mercy -> Let's face in the battles.

If China lose, then we no lucky, screwed up, face it.
If Taiwan lose, then you pay the big price and punishment.

History only remembers the glory of winner, never the losers.

Agree?
August 29th, 2004  
proteinxx
 
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August 29th, 2004  
proteinxx
 
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August 29th, 2004  
proteinxx
 
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August 29th, 2004  
gladius
 
You can't use the example of Californai breaking away from the US. It's not the same thing.

You see it is orginally China who broke away from Tawain, by turning communist.

Before this China was ruled by a government that wasn't communist, this included Taiwan which stayed true to the original government. Which makes Taiwan the legitimate heirs to the Taiwan. When China broke away by turning communist, in my oppoinion it lost the right to make territorial claims of that original government, namely Taiwan.

For this to be similar, the The US except for California would have to turn communist. California then being the heirs to the original constitution would have the right to self govern California. If the rest of the US would invade then they can do that, but they would be in the wrong, same as China invading Taiwan.