Will Russia win back Ukraine's heart?

Lunatik

Lunatik

Active member
A Carrier Fleet Grows In Ukraine

Russia has an offer that neighboring Ukraine can't refuse, and that won't make Russia look like a bully. Russia wants to built aircraft carriers, but the shipyards best suited for that kind of work are in Ukraine. At the moment, Ukraine and Russia are at odds over several major issues. One is possession of the Crimean peninsula (in southern Ukraine), and the Russian naval bases there. Currently, Russia has leased Crimea, but the lease expires in nine years, and Ukraine does not want to renew, no matter how much the Russians huff, puff and threaten. Ukraine does not trust the Russians, especially after what Russia has done to neighboring Georgia (invaded, then annexed part of Georgia). So some Russian legislators have come up with a clever solution.


​
It goes like this. Russia would provide contracts to build aircraft carriers in Ukrainian shipyards, as well as cash to get those yards back in business (they are closed for lack thereof). In return, Ukraine would extend the Crimean lease. Currently Russia stations 50 warships (most of them small, and many just patrol boats) and 80 aircraft in Crimea. But there is a large Russian population in Crimea, and Russia would like to stay. It's also becoming clear that the EU (European Union) was shaken up by what happened to Georgia, and especially by the way Russian just shrugged off EU protests. The EU and the U.S. are making aggressive noises that Ukraine will receive more substantial (more than diplomatic) support in any future confrontation with Russia. So now Russia is looking to use the carrot, rather than the stick, to get its way. The carrier contract solution works out for everyone, except Western nations unhappy with Russia having a carrier fleet. But that's a decade or more in the future, and the Russians have never shown any great capacity for effectively running aircraft carriers.


KHERSON.jpg


http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htnavai/articles/20081001.aspx
​
 
A strong Russian presence is not in the best interest of any of the other Black Sea nations. I think Ukraine is smart enough to not fall for these cheap Russian moves. Ukraine has never gained anything from partnerships with Moscow. We have to wait for full NATO membership and EU integration.
 
Well Ukrainians and all of Eastern Europe gained from Russia, it is because of Russia that they aren't saluting the Nazis today. It is because of Russia that they were regarded with such fear and envy the Warsaw pact was fearsome military bloc and these nations such as Poland and Ukraine benefited from their alliance with Russia in the way of military power, defense industries, technology and reconstruction. These Eastern European countries were in ruins economically, infrastructure and industries following ww2 and had no way of rebuilding themselves without Russia. The reason why they have any industries in these countries today is I believe of Soviet Russia rebuilding them. Though Russians are not benevolent and angels, they did contribute to Eastern Europe's recovery.

SomaliFlag.jpg

"One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist."-Yasser Arafat
 
You're sh*tting me right?
The former Soviet countries like Poland, Ukraine etc., gained by alienating themselves from Russia and gaining closer ties to the West. Geez, even Slovenia, the country that opened itself to Western Europe while others were wondering what to do is faring a lot better than most of the other former Yugoslav countries, if not all.
No one knows what a bad deal the Russians are than these guys.
Many countries side with Russia because they feel that they don't have any other choice or they have such a large Russian population that they HAVE to side with Russia (like Kazakhstan).
The guys who forget how bad the Russians are are countries like Belgium and the like. I've known a few Slovenians actually, they ALL hate Russia and I've known a fair share of Belgians who didn't know what the big deal about Russia was and they thought of that country in a favorable manner. And the Poles, they HATE Russia. And the Hungarians etc. And this isn't some kind of anti-American sort of "small dick" syndrome we're talking about. This is serious.
The Serbs don't have an issue with Russia but Yugoslavia wasn't a part of the USSR so that may explain something. Neither was Slovenia but it was their severe dislike of Communism that made them hate Russia.
 
The questions that one must ask is:
1) Wouldn't Eastern Europe be saluting the Nazis if it wasn't for Russia?

2) Wouldn't Eastern Europe be still in ruins if it wasn't for Russia rebuilding them?

3) Eastern Europe being destroyed in ww2, wasn't it because of Russian money, investments and reconstruction that their countries were rebuilt?

4) Russia is not benevolent but wasn't 25 million Russians sacrificed to liberate Eastern Europe?

5) Isn't due to Russian technology and constructions that these Eastern European countries have defense industries today, that they have the ability to build ships, tanks, aircraft, and missiles?

6) If Russian army stopped at the Russian border once they have ejected the Germans from their territory and cut their losses, wouldn't the rest of Eastern Europe be under Nazi occupation and the allies would have had to deal with the full might of the German army in France instead of a German army split between the 2 fronts, without Russia I don't think Germany would have been defeated in mainland Europe.
 
1) Wouldn't Eastern Europe be saluting the Nazis if it wasn't for Russia?
Click to expand...
Yes.
2) Wouldn't Eastern Europe be still in ruins if it wasn't for Russia rebuilding them?
Click to expand...
Eastern europe was in ruins in 1991. its still not completely rebuilt.

3) Eastern Europe being destroyed in ww2, wasn't it because of Russian money, investments and reconstruction that their countries were rebuilt?
Click to expand...
So, if I pay you to build a living room, can i rape your wife first?

4) Russia is not benevolent but wasn't 25 million Russians sacrificed to liberate Eastern Europe?
Click to expand...
No, 25 million russians died to save russia and later make it a huge empire.

5) Isn't due to Russian technology and constructions that these Eastern European countries have defense industries today, that they have the ability to build ships, tanks, aircraft, and missiles?
Click to expand...
Are you saying with out russia they couldent? from someone who thinks Iran and Egypt are inventive nations, thats a bit far fetched. Cezhcoslovakia was an industrial nationbefore the Germans and the Russians.

6) If Russian army stopped at the Russian border once they have ejected the Germans from their territory and cut their losses, wouldn't the rest of Eastern Europe be under Nazi occupation and the allies would have had to deal with the full might of the German army in France instead of a German army split between the 2 fronts, without Russia I don't think Germany would have been defeated in mainland Europe.
Click to expand...
That dose not justify 40 years of oppression and political rape. If i stop a bank robbery and than rob the bank my self, you wouldent say i earned the money would you?
 
UnitedSomalia said:
Well Ukrainians and all of Eastern Europe gained from Russia, it is because of Russia that they aren't saluting the Nazis today. It is because of Russia that they were regarded with such fear and envy the Warsaw pact was fearsome military bloc and these nations such as Poland and Ukraine benefited from their alliance with Russia in the way of military power, defense industries, technology and reconstruction. These Eastern European countries were in ruins economically, infrastructure and industries following ww2 and had no way of rebuilding themselves without Russia. The reason why they have any industries in these countries today is I believe of Soviet Russia rebuilding them. Though Russians are not benevolent and angels, they did contribute to Eastern Europe's recovery.
Click to expand...

Yeah they loved being under Moscow's thumb. Great life they had, just ask Hungary.:roll:
 
If both of you dont quit it i will start using harsher means. Im sick of cleaning up your posts, and im sick of you going at each other. If you cant post with out personel attacks, dont respond to each other, its calle ignorign and its the adult thing to do.
 
UnitedSomalia said:
Well Ukrainians and all of Eastern Europe gained from Russia, it is because of Russia that they aren't saluting the Nazis today. It is because of Russia that they were regarded with such fear and envy the Warsaw pact was fearsome military bloc and these nations such as Poland and Ukraine benefited from their alliance with Russia in the way of military power, defense industries, technology and reconstruction. These Eastern European countries were in ruins economically, infrastructure and industries following ww2 and had no way of rebuilding themselves without Russia. The reason why they have any industries in these countries today is I believe of Soviet Russia rebuilding them. Though Russians are not benevolent and angels, they did contribute to Eastern Europe's recovery.
Click to expand...
The Warsaw uprising was crushed because of the Russians refusal to act. The tallest building in Warsaw was built by the Russians and is the most hated building in the country. The Russians helped invade Poland in 1939. The Ukranians supported Nazi Germany during WWII in the hope that they would get their independence from Russia.

The Russians helped put Eastern Europe in the ruin it was in, for personal benefit. There is no love lost, and the only way for Russia to win back the heart of Ukraine is to send Troops into the heart of Ukraine.
 
UnitedSomalia, I've been to Eastern Europe and a sizable chunk of my family lives in Lithuania. They would have been much happier under the Nazis than the Soviets, excepting the Jews of course.

I think it's hilarious that Russia makes a big stink when the people of their former puppet states choose to join NATO or the EU. Too bad for them. Folks usually don't look favorably on you when you've been ruling them with an iron fist for four decades, and doing such a terrible job of it that you have to wait on bread lines to feed your family. And don't forget they attempted to overwrite the traditions, customs, and religion of every nation they took over. The killings (and worse) that took place certainly don't help their case either.

I hope Ukraine does the right thing. All they want is independence, from Russia and the West.
 
Last edited:
The Other Guy said:
The Russians helped put Eastern Europe in the ruin it was in, for personal benefit. There is no love lost, and the only way for Russia to win back the heart of Ukraine is to send Troops into the heart of Ukraine.
Click to expand...

I'd say that's it in a nutshell, but I'd include Eastern Europe as a whole.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top