Will China unite with Taiwan peacefully? - Page 7




View Poll Results :I think China will unite with Taiwan peacefully
YES, a decade later 11 21.15%
YES, more than two or three decades later 16 30.77%
YES, but beyond my lifetime 2 3.85%
NO. China is interested to use force 23 44.23%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Boots
 
November 9th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAINT
Will Taiwan ever need to declare independence?
It is already independent according to commonsense .
Good points.

Then why Taiwan taidu government tries so hard to want to declare independence and establish a Republic of Taiwan (which does not exist), care to explain the commonsense here?

You say Taiwan is already independent (country), then why your Singapore country does not establish formal diplomatic relationship with it? Or only a handful Singaporeans like you think so, I bet if your government thinks Taiwan is independent country, and most of your people think so, then you have established formal diplomatic relationship with Taiwan country, right? Where is common sense?
November 9th, 2004  
SAINT
 
Taiwan is of course independent... why?

What flag flies on its poles? The Taiwanese flag.

But countries in the world are not allowed to establish formal relations with Taiwan because China does not allow it. China claims Taiwan as its own and tries to grab it.

'Taiwan is mine,' says China. 'Nobody allowed other than me!'

Well, if China likes to think that Taiwan is China's, then let it be.
Anyone can think the world is theirs, too. Probably in an Asylum.
November 9th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Taiwan is of course independent, just no major countries recognize it, some tiny countries don't recognize it either

Every group or family or individuals can "think" they are indepedent too, just they are not allowed to be in UN, well it is still their right to "think" so, I totally agree with that, and that does not bother me either
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Boots
November 9th, 2004  
SAINT
 
Well, the main thing is China's attitude which is quite unacceptable internationally.

One shouldn't think of invading or killing or mutilating another person just because another person is smaller or doesn't obey or want to belong to you.
It's sadistic on the part of the person who thinks of spoiling things or harming another person just because he can't possess what he wants.
November 9th, 2004  
August1
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAINT
One shouldn't think of invading or killing or mutilating another person just because another person is smaller or doesn't obey or want to belong to you.
Hahaha!! Tell that one to America. You starve them first with sanctions for ten years and then you finally invade them. Oh and america isnt even near Iraq.
November 10th, 2004  
Asskicker
 
u say taiwan is independant already, well i can tell u, it exsits illegally, it must be taken back
Taiwan was taken by japan at the end of Qing Dynasty, and Japan gives Taiwan back to Chinese government _------the document says the legiminate goverment---is a government represents only 30million ppl of 1.3billion chinese a legiminate government???
therefore, taiwan government doesn't even have the right to stay on that island, it belongs to the true chinese government, represents 1.3 billion ppl and recgonized by other countries...
November 10th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
Btw, we are forgeting the hundreds of thousands of nationlist troops that have been either loyal to the nationlist government or forced to do so that had settled in taiwan. These veterans, mostly, wanted no independency wutsoever and most wanted to reunite with china, mainly because the leading party: green" wanted to become independent.

since taiwan is historically china's, it definetly belongs to the chinese people, thereby part of the leading chinese government, thereby taiwan is part of china, culturally and geographically.

and.... theres always the normandy style invasion which is going to own taiwan anyways, this is a diplomatic situation in which no foreign power should take part of.....
November 10th, 2004  
westwater
 
Taiwan is of course independent... why?

What flag flies on its poles? The Taiwanese flag[quote]


haha,Is that why Taiwan is independent ?I can tell you this flag is not permitted to be placed anywhere outside of Taiwan.
You can also make one which declare your independence ,so can the insane
November 10th, 2004  
Kane
 
This crisis should be decided by both Taiwan and Mainland China. Not the United States nor the United Nations. During the cold war, Taiwan had goals to regain Mainland China. They also boasted that they represent the people of the entire land of China and dubbed the incorrect title as the Republic of China. You can't have two Chinas at once.

US or Foreign military involvement is defintetly a clear no. This is only for the interests of both China and Taiwan to strive towards social stability and peace.

If Taiwan continues it's reckless Independence Movement and dumped the "One China, two systems" policy, they're asking for war.

If China continues it's military concentration on Taipei, they're asking for war.

It's better if both just stop for a moment and start talking again.
(Nevertheless, President Chen Shu Bian must leave office for things to improve)
November 10th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Secrecy has the right of it IMO, it's something that has to be worked out between Taiwan and the PRC.

My biggest problem with a great deal of the Chinese viewpoints that I've heard is the implied opinion that the people of Taiwan only have the right to voice their opinion if they are NOT solidly in favor of reunification. Taiwanese who favor independence are seen as having infringed the upon rights of the people of the PRC ... I have to wonder if their opinion is will not be their death sentence if reunification occurs in the near future. Essentially, according to that mentality, only one type of opinion on the matter is not treason.

Echeziel, the point that I was making was not that the Qing (Manchu) Dynasty did not control the island of Formosa for most of its existence. It did. My point is that there was no control of any great duration by ANY prior dynasty. That means:
the Xia Kingdom era;
the Shang Kingdom era;
the Zhou Kingdom era;
the Qin Dynasty;
the Han Dynasty;
the Three Kingdoms;
the Jin Dynasty;
the Song Dynasty;
the brief Qi, Liang, Chen, Zhou eras;
the Sui Dynasty;
the Tang Dynasty;
the following era of general instability;
the renewed Song Dynasty;
the Liao Dynasty;
the western Xia Dynasty;
the new Jin Dynasty;
the Yuan (Mongol) Dynasty;
and finally the Ming Dynasty.
All of those time periods did not control the Island of Formosa to any real extent. There was cultural influence certainly, but that does not equate to control. There were a few very brief periods of control too, but those are the very tiny exception to the rule. There is the larger exception you pointed out at the end of the Ming Dynasty, so it could be said that Chinese dominion begins at that point. Consider that there were people inhabiting that island of Formosa prior to any of the prior dynasties, kingdoms or eras. My point was that Formosa has been independent of Chinese dominion for FAR more of its history than it has been under China's control. What I'm I trying to say with all this? Quite simply, the statement that Taiwan has a very lengthy history as a separate entity from China is not "absurd" nor is it "propagandist nonsense". Its factual and should be taken into consideration.

Take the fact that Formosa did not consistently remain under Chinese dominion on top of that, and you can make a pretty strong case for Taiwan having its own identity.

Compare that to the Island of Hainan, which has seen fairly consistent Chinese control from the Han Dynasty on. Any argument for independence for Hainan is a lot weaker obviously. I highly doubt anyone would bother.

I'm completly at a loss as to why you're blowing off Ireland and Scottland as comparitively irrelevant. They are nations that had their own distict cultural identity almost entirely erased by English dominion (just like Formosa's native aboriginal culture gave way to Chinese culture). Very few Scotts still know how to speak their old native Celt language. The Irish have forced a reversal of fortunes with what was left of their proud cultural identity. Most or all now speak Gaelic, but they all speak English too. It seems like a perfect comparison to me. Ireland had a monarchy, true enough, and its lack of real control of Ireland was something the English used to their advantage. Same story to a lesser degree in Scotland. You saw inter-clan rivalries and wars -- very similar to the very disunited Formosa tribes. That fact does not obligate either land to submit to English dominion.

Bear in mind that I'm not arguing that Taiwan's Indepence movement is right or wrong. I'm pointing out that they do have a very valid point and the rhetoric that "Taiwan has always been part of China, will always be part of China and has not right to be anything else." is just that -- rhetoric. Not absolute fact.