Will China unite with Taiwan peacefully? - Page 6




View Poll Results :I think China will unite with Taiwan peacefully
YES, a decade later 11 21.15%
YES, more than two or three decades later 16 30.77%
YES, but beyond my lifetime 2 3.85%
NO. China is interested to use force 23 44.23%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Boots
 
November 6th, 2004  
dragon
 
China is definitely in favor of peaceful unification. BUT sadly , Taiwan is like a child fleeing home and never wants to be back home and is deterimed to be independant iron-heartedly. The worst is that US keeps selling advance weaponary to Taiwan, which in turn emboldens Tawan to firmly refuse peaseful unification. Using force for china to take back Taiwan is now inevitable. We all will see that within the next four years if taiwan goes further. Austrlia will be most likely neutral in the future US-China conflict across the Taiwan Straits as the foreign minister implicated before.
November 6th, 2004  
Ezechiel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
The two key points are these:

The Qing Dynasty is the measuring stick that the PRC uses to define where their borders should lie, whether the Qing Dynasty had any proper right to it or not, and despite the fact that they weren't technically even a truly Chinese dynasty. Nobody has bothered to dispute or confirm this claim.

Ezechiel, you make some points about colonialism. I don't see the difference between China swallowing up the island of Formosa or Great Britain's swallowing up Scotland and Ireland. You portray Europe's colonial period as only being exploitive. In truth, it was, but it was also beneficial to those nations. Culture and science previously unknown to those lands became available. Some were affected by that cultural influx more than others. There was an air of European racial superiority, but how is that different than China and its "the Middle Kingdom" nonsense? How was it any less exploitive than the Qing Dynasty?

The point about the Ming was valid, albeit weak. The Ming didn't control Formosa for the VAST majority of their existence, and it was just a last place to run to in times of trouble.

The underlying thing is that the Chinese people seems to have decided that they own Taiwan. This "fact" has been drummed into them very thoroughly. In fact, I doubt I'd trust anybody from mainland China to NOT have that opinion. They have been so thoroughly versed on the absoluteness of China's claim to Formosa/Taiwan that they are completely incapable of have any other opinion. Chinese seem to know "Taiwan belongs to China" better than anything on this earth. Most refer to that sort of thing as "indoctrination", the stronger term being "brainwashing". That terminology may or may not be fair, but consider one very important fact -- The People's Republic of China is ready and willing to kill every living thing on that island rather than allow it to become its own nation. Pardon my opinion, but that's completely ed up!
Mr.Lighting

I think u still haven't answer my question - If today Guomingdang did not win the civil war, will the Taiwan claim to be an independent country today?

First I think that ur saying that Ch'ng did not get to countrol Taiwan for the majority time. But the fact is that Ch'ng later took over it just few decades after the Ch'ng Dynasty ever started. For 300 years of history of Qing, they ruled Taiwan for 200++ years, and the left few decades will still govened by Han Chinese -- Zheng Cheng Gong, the previous official of Ming Dynasty.

U can't compare British swallowing up Scotland and Ireland and blablablablabla. Becoz if u look trough history, u know that scotish and Irish had their own language and was a own tribe who historically also have their own kingdom. And the English at a period looked down against Isrish , Scotish and blablabla.............

But China-Taiwan is totally not a samething like this. They never separate Taiwan from China in politic handling. Unlike British who separated them.

U can't say that China were brain wash or something. Because right here we have historical record for u to take reference. Who taught us to think in that way? OLD HISTORY RECORD. And now u r trying to deny this. I don't get why.

This is nothing to do with INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM, for at the start Guomingdang escaped to Taiwan doesn't means Taiwan can be it's own country. NOTICE THIS -- GUOMINGDANG CAME TO TAIWAN DOESN'T MEANS TAIWA CAN BE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY!!!

People who have a little logical thinking will see this.

Everything must be thought and see in logic way. As see if Guomingdang did not lose the war,Taiwan still peacefully remain as China part. How can u ever say that Taiwan is legally a country just becoz a Political body of the homeland escape, came and govern them?

Back to the question : IF GUOMINGDANG DID NOT LOSE IN CIVIL WAR, WILL TAIWAN EVER BE TALKING ABOUT SEPARATING???
November 6th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Quote:
IF GUOMINGDANG DID NOT LOSE IN CIVIL WAR, WILL TAIWAN EVER BE TALKING ABOUT SEPARATING???
Of course not.

The thing is, the people are well free to talk what they want to talk, it is freedom of speech, no matter it makes sense or not.

The only important thing for China is, to be prepared for the worst, that's the war of unification or what name ever.

Just my 2 cents.
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Boots
November 6th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
hahas, have u ever seen one of those taiwanese debates???? give them each a grenade and we will have one of the highest rating shows in the world... I wouldnt want a government ruled by those people in the *government* of taiwan...

ANyways, it is unlikely war will come before 2008

After that..... taiwans gonna be shocked back to the stone ages if they still want independence and declares it
November 8th, 2004  
SAINT
 
Luckily the Chinese government is more sane and logical than to attack Taiwan..


Public opinion may be for war, but the government still does not think it is the time yet to 'unify' with Taiwan... the Chinese government in fact has no definite time table to 'unify' with Taiwan.

It's all playing politics.. make the Chinese people focus on other things rather than their own big load of social problems. But it shows that the Chinese public is so bent on killing its own kind (the Taiwanese).

It's sad.
November 8th, 2004  
FlyingFrog
 
Quote:
the Chinese government in fact has no definite time table to 'unify' with Taiwan.
Chinese government always says IF taiwan declares independence, then it's war. Isn't this a kinda time table?
November 9th, 2004  
SAINT
 
That's the thing about timetable.. it's just talk to make the Chinese people feel good and powerful..

Will Taiwan ever need to declare independence?
It is already independent according to commonsense .

It's just like you don't need to tell your neighbour next door or anyone in the street that you are 'independent' from your neighbour living next door to you.
It's commonsense that you are already independent from your neighbour.
Same as Taiwan and China living side by side as neighbours.

IT's just political trick to boost the morale of the Chinese people.. and support the government who cannot eradicate corruption and bribery.

BUT if China really attacks Taiwan, I think the Chinese Central government will not be able to handle the provinces, like Guangdong and others who will likewise want to declare independence too.

Secondly, if Taiwan were a poor country, will China want it back? I doubt so.

Thirdly, China as a large neighbour should instead offer protection and security to Taiwan.
The BIG should help the small.
The Strong should help the weak
.

In that way, the Taiwanese people will want and like to be back to the arms of China willingly. That's the true art of war.

Anyway, China killing Taiwan is like a man's right hand chopping his own left hand away. What remains behind will be a mere cripple.
November 9th, 2004  
Kinection
 
Quote:
BUT if China really attacks Taiwan, I think the Chinese Central government will not be able to handle the provinces, like Guangdong and others who will likewise want to declare independence too.
What makes you think the provinces want to leave? My relatives in Guangdong don't sound like they want to leave at all.

Quote:
Anyway, China killing Taiwan is like a man's right hand chopping his own left hand away. What remains behind will be a mere cripple.
Not getting this analogy. Can you explain?

Quote:
IT's just political trick to boost the morale of the Chinese people.. and support the government who cannot eradicate corruption and bribery.
Do you have any reason to believe this to be true? Is this analogous to the US actions in Iraq?
November 9th, 2004  
SAINT
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinection
Quote:
BUT if China really attacks Taiwan, I think the Chinese Central government will not be able to handle the provinces, like Guangdong and others who will likewise want to declare independence too.
What makes you think the provinces want to leave? My relatives in Guangdong don't sound like they want to leave at all.

Quote:
Anyway, China killing Taiwan is like a man's right hand chopping his own left hand away. What remains behind will be a mere cripple.
Not getting this analogy. Can you explain?

Quote:
IT's just political trick to boost the morale of the Chinese people.. and support the government who cannot eradicate corruption and bribery.
Do you have any reason to believe this to be true? Is this analogous to the US actions in Iraq?
1) You are not in China yourself.. have you not left?
Anyway, it's not the common people who makes the decision.. it's the provincial army commanders.

2) It seems the propaganda of the Chinese government has numbed the senses of its people, perhaps? Can you understand that both China and Taiwan are Chinese.. a single race? Probably the government propaganda makes it legitimate and fun to kill, especially their own.

But if Taiwan is not your own kind, why do you want it back? It's an invasion then.

3) I don't understand why you involve the US in this case? It is the Chinese government that cannot eradicate corruption and it's common knowledge to people that it is. Even the Chinese people have rioted recently due to corruption of a provincial governor.
November 9th, 2004  
Asskicker
 
well..thank u for pointing out that Taiwan ppl and Main land chinese ppl are a same race, but many ppl in Taiwan now denies it. That is why i am so pissed about the Taiwan issue. i am in canada, i got lots of taiwanese friends here, some of them are nice guys, but some are like thinking mainland china sucks and stuff, u know...their attitude is just BS...should a son hates his mother just because his mother is ugly? should a dog abandon his master just because his master is poor? taiwan is been directly ruled by China since Yuan dynasty, which established Peng Hu administration, and tell u what, even Qing and Yuan dynasty are ruled by non-Han ppl, when they rule, they rule according to Han tradition, and all their laws and stuff are made by Han ppl. it is actually still ruled by Hans.