Will China unite with Taiwan peacefully? - Page 12




View Poll Results :I think China will unite with Taiwan peacefully
YES, a decade later 11 21.15%
YES, more than two or three decades later 16 30.77%
YES, but beyond my lifetime 2 3.85%
NO. China is interested to use force 23 44.23%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Boots
 
November 16th, 2004  
It's all a game
 
Hehe, it looks confusing above. But I was quoting SAINT (and he was quoting godofthunder).
November 17th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
a point to lightning: did britain want austalia back???? hell no

westerns... their world is only the other half, thinking they are the greatest, doing whatever they want, though amusing, but not funny when it is extreme and disgriminating...

anyone whos not from asia should not be arguing that taiwan is not a part of china, actually, make it from china or taiwan
November 17th, 2004  
Chocobo_Blitzer
 
What you're basically saying is that only asians are capable of understanding the complexities of the Taiwan issue.


And you call us supremist.
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Boots
November 17th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocobo_Blitzer
What you're basically saying is that only asians are capable of understanding the complexities of the Taiwan issue.


And you call us supremest.
That is exactly why I've decided that its completely pointless to discuss. If China operates on a set of rules that
nobody else is capable of comprehending ... well, that's a pretty bigotted viewpoint for one thing (as Chocobo_Blitzer already pointed out), but it also makes it impossible to discuss. If Westerners are completely incapable of understanding certain things about Asian culture -- and that is the underlying excuse -- then nothing can be accomplished by the discussion. All a person from China need say is, "Oh, you just are not capable of comprehending/understanding."

As far as Australia is concerned, the point is not whether or not the UK wants it back. The point is: If they did, do they have some divine unimpeachable right to reclaim it -- similar to China and Taiwan? Virtually every reason that China uses to stake its claim on Taiwan also exists in the case of UK/Australia. Language, culture, ethnicity, etc.
November 17th, 2004  
SAINT
 
Why China wants Taiwan dead is because China cannot stand another Chinese/Taiwanese government with its own Chinese/Taiwanese president and constitution running Taiwan successfully.

So China wants to smash it up and prove that IT is the ONLY Chinese government to exist...
November 17th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
no ppl, the point is this is no time for imperalist intervention especailly when its a *chinese probelm, either do they have the right to intervene
November 17th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Precision
no ppl, the point is this is no time for imperalist intervention especailly when its a *chinese probelm, either do they have the right to intervene
Didn't quite understand that. Can you rephrase it please? Who is intervening in what and why?
November 17th, 2004  
It's all a game
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Precision
no ppl, the point is this is no time for imperalist intervention especailly when its a *chinese probelm, either do they have the right to intervene
Didn't quite understand that. Can you rephrase it please? Who is intervening in what and why?
Without giving too much though on this, I think he meant, as most Chinese on the mainland believe, that the Taiwan problem is a Sino-US problem. Without the US meddling, there wouldn't have been a Taiwan problem as we know it now.

To further enlighten those who can only see this from an American perspective (I'll forget the Taiwan clowns for a while), here's how the mainland Chinese believe (I repeat, this is the prevailing view in China, not my persoanl rant):

1. Taiwan is part of China. Most nations on this planet recognize that and the UN recognizes that. Period.

2. The US wants to keep Taiwan politically seperated from China, even though it officially recognizes that there in only one China, of which Taiwan is a part (go to Library of Congress for a copy of the Communique if you don't know this fact). The US wants it this way for its own strategic interest and as something to squeeze China.

3. The US wants to keep Taiwan seperated from China because it doesn't feel comfortable seeing a China rising too fast and wants to delay this process as much as it can and to contain China strategically as long as it can.

4. China is not yet strong enough to ignore the US's will and thus has to play this game with the latter until the situation changes. Therefore, if Taiwan remains where it is, nobody is going to get hurt. If, however, the clowns in Taiwan decide to play with fire, the whole Chinese nation will unite to push the government to destroy the bastards (that's the sentiment here), regardless of what the Americans think of it. After all, it's none of you business, as far as international law is concerned. Many Chinese would tell tell Taiwan clowns: "You can go join your American daddy or Japanese brother, but leave our Taiwan to us!"

5. Neither China nor the US can afford an all-out confrontation with each other. The two economies are too much entwined already. If there is a war between these two, instead of the adolecent idea of the HiTech war game as happened in Iraq, China will not play that game for its lack of the toys. China will go straight to the point and test the US Congress's nerves, if war is fought on the Chinese terrotery (i.e. Taiwan). Nobody will have much left to enjoy a victory if WMD is actually used by large nations for the final survival.

6. Despite its millions of problems within, China is getting stronger every day. Despite its super power status, the US is going downhill these days, economically and its reputation in the world.

7. Nobody can predict where China may be even 5 years down the road. A breakup into many small nations is possible but not extremely likely. So those who hate China can keep hoping.

8. The USA is a great country, a super power, and the biggest bully. Most Chinese recognize that and consider the USA the ONLY worthy rival, competitor, or ally (hopefully) on this planet today. Russia is good, but too close to be comfortable and owes historical debts to China. Japan is a typical peninsular nation, highly insecure about its lack of natural resources and its survival. It has done and will do many bad things to its neighbors again, once the US leash is off its neck (and many Asians believe that Japan will revenge the misery caused by the two nukes). Most Chinese want to see the US and China to be close friends. But most Chinese simply can't bear the thought that the great China be bullied again and again by the US.

This (the above) is roughly what a Chinese perspective looks like. To validate this and to see how the world recognizes the Taiwan situation, you need to get out of your comfort zone and see with your own eyes.
November 17th, 2004  
SAINT
 
If you are a Taiwanese yourself, you will reverse all the points you have just made..

How will you feel as a Taiwanese Chinese when the mainland Chinese are threatening and trying to kill you?
November 17th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Precision
imperalist intervention
There are a few terms in the international vocabulary that, to Western Civilization, screams "I've been brainwashed at some point and would now like to unjustifiably demonize the United States and the Western World in general." Imperialist, Infidel, Capitalist Pig, the Great Satan ... there are many more and most are horribly misused.

Imperialism: 1. belief in empire-building: the policy of extending the rule or influence of a country over other countries or colonies 2. domination by an empire: the political, military, or economic domination of one country over another 3. takeover and domination: the extension of power or authority over others in the interests of domination

The point I'd like to make is is a simple one: "Imperialist" in the Taiwan question simply does not logically apply to the United States role. The United States has no designs on invading and forcibly establishing its control over Taiwan or anything even close to it. On the other hand, the People's Republic of China, right or wrong, is screaming for its right to exactly that to Taiwan. The truth of the matter is, regardless of how it happened, today the Island of Taiwan functions under 100% self-rule and China's designs on Taiwan is to crush that rule and establish its own -- so China is the only nation involved that is actually being Imperialistic.

Quote:
especailly when its a *chinese probelm, either do they have the right to intervene
Other than saying the same things over and over, nobody has clearly established China's having any absolute right in the matter anymore than anybody else involved.