Will China unite with Taiwan peacefully? - Page 10




View Poll Results :I think China will unite with Taiwan peacefully
YES, a decade later 11 21.15%
YES, more than two or three decades later 16 30.77%
YES, but beyond my lifetime 2 3.85%
NO. China is interested to use force 23 44.23%
Voters: 52. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Boots
 
November 12th, 2004  
Kane
 
Wow...that is an abundant amount of responses to godofthunder9010. Besides, Exechiel have analyzed the situation directly from historical facts, common sense and logic.
November 12th, 2004  
Asskicker
 
lol godofthunder9010 i am not mad at u although my expression sometimes may be very passionate, (cuz i am still a kid)
i am rather impressed by ur extensive knowledge and great sense of logic

anyways, one thing i have to tell u is that i dont really care if some countires officially recgnoize PRC rahter than taiwan government even these coutnries dont think that way. The importance is that in Taiwan's consititution, they believe their government represents whole China, that shows that in their mind, they still view themselves as a part of china

sadly today there r many taiwan ppl start to question their idenity, personally, i think it is reasonable, because:
1. for some 50 years (2 generations), taiwan ppl have been seperated from mainland and been taught about how horrible main land china is.,
2. many young ppl were born in taiwan and they have never been to china
3. chinese governemtn is not democratic, taiwanese wants a demoractic government

for i aruge so much not because i want communist to rule whole china and taiwan, but because i want to keep my country as a whole, (no matter who governs it, but better be a democratic one)

it is really hard to decide whether taiwan should be a part of china or not, history is something solid there yet ppl can use it in both ways, i am afraid we may never get an answer on taiwan issue through arguing from history, (if talking about history works, U.S is probably Indian ppl's )

the most important thing is which choice is the best for taiwan ppl, today, not been governed by communist party is a good thing for taiwan ppl, on the other hand, declaring independance and joining a war is also not a good thing for taiwan ppl,

the only thing i can hope is that one day , china becomes democratic and taiwan ppl agree to reunite with mainland themselves ,
that would be a perfect ending for all those mess we made in the past
November 13th, 2004  
Ezechiel
 
One Nation 2 Rules policy is the bst choice.
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Boots
November 13th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
ALL in all, with all those arguments and replies from u people, the fact remains that china controls taiwan, taiwan is part of china, taiwanese is chinese, and taiwan cannot be independent. Those who object shall go down the intellegence level as they are doubting logic
November 13th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Precision
ALL in all, with all those arguments and replies from u people, the fact remains that china controls taiwan
When did that happen?? I was under the impression that the PRC had not established any control over Taiwan. But if what you say is right, the discussion is irrelevant -- China and Taiwan are already re-united and its a done deal. I must say, its nice to hear that the Taiwan question has finally been answered!!
November 13th, 2004  
MadeInChina
 
china controls taiwan, which means the chinese peopel controling taiwan, and taiwan is inhabitated by hciense people, which makes sense becasue, chinese people lives in china and therefore taiwan is part of china, in contorl from china
November 13th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
And British people control and inhabit Australia ... so what's the point you're getting at? So its decided then -- Australia is part of the United Kingdom.
November 13th, 2004  
Ezechiel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
And British people control and inhabit Australia ... so what's the point you're getting at? So its decided then -- Australia is part of the United Kingdom.
Historical facts -- As I told u in the previous post, Australia's English were criminals abondon by British in the old time. They never see those people as same as their own British homeland citizen.

Even when Australia,Singapore, and other colnies wanted to get independence they also need to negotiate and talk to British. And British then only decided whether allow them to Independent or not, same case happened to my country(Malaysia) also.

Even Colony need agreement from Imperialist country to independent. How can Taiwan not? More ever Taiwan were not a colony to CHina trough history time.


Did Taiwan negotiate with China to get Independence? Nope.

Can't use Colony cases to argue us anymore.
November 13th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Okay, so we're making up the rules as we go?

The things that China harps on with Taiwan --
1.) They're of mostly Chinese descent with a smaller aboriginal ethnic component.
2.) They used to be controlled by China.
3.) They speak Mandarin Chinese.
4.) They are heavily influenced by Chinese culture.

Australia fits all those qualifications. You say Australia doesn't work because its a colony. As nearly as I can tell, that's exactly what Taiwan was -- China sent their people over to Taiwan to colonize it. That's what a colony is, so I'm not seeing a difference.

You say Australia was colonized 100% by criminals. Nope, it wasn't. That was part of it, sure. The underlying thing in the colonial era was simple -- Great Britain (and all the other colonial powers) were overcrowded. They needed an outlet for the overpopulation. They found lots of creative means to get people to ship off to lands abroad. They were still British (not just English -- that leaves out Irish, Scots and Welch) and they still identified themselves and British for a long time to come. They were citizens of a proud British Empire.

As far as Taiwan negotiating for its Independence --- Well, that hasn't happened yet. It may never happen at all. Entirely up to the people of Taiwan to sort out. As of this moment, I believe that they still claim to own the whole enchilada. Still holding the official claim of being the true government of China and all that other nonsense. And since the People's Republic of China hasn't a single shred of control over Taiwan, asking for independence is a logical paradox. They already are already self governing and 100% independent of mainland China's discretion.

The dictionary definition of Independent:
in·de·pend·ent --
adjective
1. not controlled by another: free from the authority, control, or domination of somebody or something else, especially not controlled by another state or organization and able to self-govern
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_18...dependent.html

Explain this to me. How does Taiwan NOT fit that definition? They're already independent, they're just being told to keep quiet about it.

I can see the possible case for calling Taiwan part of China, but not part of the People's Republic of China. Much like Austria and Germany -- both are almost 100% German people but yet they have 2 nations.
November 13th, 2004  
Ezechiel
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Australia fits all those qualifications. You say Australia doesn't work because its a colony. As nearly as I can tell, that's exactly what Taiwan was -- China sent their people over to Taiwan to colonize it. That's what a colony is, so I'm not seeing a difference.
I see,so it's a part of it. But British came to Australia and colony them. I had explained to u how a Colony was being controlled and be treaten. Second class, low-developement, social, chance to be politicians, basic rights as a citizen of Birtish Empire..............

Taiwan? Equal developement, social, chances to be politicians and officiers, basic rights as a citizen of China. And, China don't send criminals to Taiwan. Why British send criminals to Austalia? Becoz they see Austalia as an abondon land, and a colony which they will not see them(Australians) as equal as the Britsh. Did Chinese saw Taianese unequally to Taiwanese?

Definations of colony, my country that had been colonised by Imperialist before,we have even clearer concept on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
I can see the possible case for calling Taiwan part of China, but not part of the People's Republic of China.
Again,started with Qing dynasty. British signed agreement with Qing, then given back to China in different government. So Hong Kong cannot belongs to China just becoz governemnt were different??

Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Much like Austria and Germany -- both are almost 100% German people but yet they have 2 nations.
As I have told u, European history were full of chaos. Who have better Military power who rules. Even in 19 centuries same things were still happening. BUt in todays world, law rules. And today the best things to fit the laws is checking history record. If u do not accept this, solve it in Military way, China still rule Taiwan.

As u also no during renaissance period there were still not any clearer nations. Just many small kingdoms. The Europeans united the nations based on Racial reason who speak same languages, the same races nation, even tough the European blood were mixed very chaoticly. Easily to say -- Realpolitic with iron fist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Explain this to me. How does Taiwan NOT fit that definition? They're already independent, they're just being told to keep quiet about it.
U need to check another word ---Illegal. Today all the nations that is admitted to be Indepent needs agreement, signature. Everything goes by law, Taiwan had it? no.

If u settle Taiwan's status with a dictionary, this is obviously not a good defend.