'Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians'




 
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April 6th, 2010  
perseus
 
 

Topic: 'Wikileaks reveals video showing US air crew shooting down Iraqi civilians'


Surprised there is no mention of this on these forums, perhaps I have missed it. It is all over the news here. Note the US military say the video is genuine and the correct rules of engagement were followed.

Guardian Story
Quote:
A secret video showing US air crew falsely claiming to have encountered a firefight in Baghdad and then laughing at the dead after launching an air strike that killed a dozen people, including two Iraqis working for Reuters news agency, was revealed by Wikileaks today
Video here at WikiLeaks

Before going off the rails here, perhaps I better get a few facts right. I'm not making any judgements yet.

What are the current rules of engagement in Iraq for US forces, to fire at any unauthorised person who appears to be carrying a weapon? What about those attempting to carry away the injured?

Where any weapons found on any of the dead & injured?

What sort of range would this helicopter be at in this case, surely it was audible to the crowd, so why were people standing around if they were carrying weapons.

Just a final comment, surely it should be technically possible to take an enlarged still photograph before engaging rather than a grainy video image so this may have resolved the problem.
April 6th, 2010  
mmarsh
 
 
Apparently the pilots of the AH-64 mistook the cameraman camera as a weapon, not a inconceivable error when you are at 500FT and are watching things through a close circuit TV.

I don't think the military will get in too much trouble for accident, not to sound unsympathetic to those that died but these things happen in war. There fact they tried to cover it up however...could get them into a big sticky mess.
April 6th, 2010  
Chukpike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
Surprised there is no mention of this on these forums, perhaps I have missed it. It is all over the news here. Note the US military say the video is genuine and the correct rules of engagement were followed.
Looks like authentic footage. And the sound recording indicates they were shooting at authorized targets. So, what's the problem?

It is all over the news where?


Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
Guardian Story
Quote:
A secret video showing US air crew falsely claiming to have encountered a firefight in Baghdad and then laughing at the dead after launching an air strike that killed a dozen people, including two Iraqis working for Reuters news agency, was revealed by Wikileaks today
Video here at WikiLeaks
In your "secret" video I see no indication of air crew members falsely claiming to have encountered a firefight. Also, do not see any verification of the two Iraqis working for Reuters. Names an arrows superimposed on the video do not supply proof of identity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
Before going off the rails here, perhaps I better get a few facts right. I'm not making any judgements yet.

What are the current rules of engagement in Iraq for US forces, to fire at any unauthorized person who appears to be carrying a weapon?

What about those attempting to carry away the injured?

Where any weapons found on any of the dead & injured?

What sort of range would this helicopter be at in this case, surely it was audible to the crowd, so why were people standing around if they were carrying weapons.

Just a final comment, surely it should be technically possible to take an enlarged still photograph before engaging rather than a grainy video image so this may have resolved the problem.
Actually, if you or Reuters are going to claim any wrong doing on the part of the US Military. You should all ready have the information and not be asking on this forum. Our responses would not be considered "official".

Just a final comment. Surely the people on the ground could have paused and posed for pictures. As you pointed out, it was a "secret video" and was not intended for Academy Award consideration. If Hollywood had shot the video the quality would have been much better.

P. S. I forgot to donate.
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April 6th, 2010  
A Can of Man
 
 
Apparently it was a bad part of Baghdad during a bloody month.
If you see a fuzzy image of a bunch of guys congregating near a van with a long object, in a part of town where your troops have been getting f*ed up for the better part of the month, what conclusion would you draw?
I probably would have come to the same conclusion, that these men were hostile.
April 6th, 2010  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
Apparently the pilots of the AH-64 mistook the cameraman camera as a weapon, not a inconceivable error when you are at 500FT and are watching things through a close circuit TV.

I don't think the military will get in too much trouble for accident, not to sound unsympathetic to those that died but these things happen in war. There fact they tried to cover it up however...could get them into a big sticky mess.
10/10 IMO

Unfortunately accidents do sometimes occur, which is a great pity, but it does appear that all possible efforts were taken to avoid that possibility in this case

Had there have been an attempted whitewash, that would have been the first sign of probable guilt.
April 7th, 2010  
A Can of Man
 
 
Not sure 100% if this relates to the same incident but it seems that the military can't find their own copy of this alleged tape.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100407/..._us_iraq_video

Cover up?
Or just one of many things that just go missing all the time?
April 7th, 2010  
perseus
 
 
Quote:
What are the current rules of engagement in Iraq for US forces, to fire at any unauthorised person who appears to be carrying a weapon? What about those attempting to carry away the injured?

Where any weapons found on any of the dead & injured?

What sort of range would this helicopter be at in this case, surely it was audible to the crowd, so why were people standing around if they were carrying weapons.
Around 500ft for the range? seems quite incredulous that someone would stand around chatting carrying RPGs within 500ft of an Apache helicopter hovering nearby. The video looks grainy and there were a few seconds time lag between firing and impact, which suggests to me the range could be a mile or more.

Any idea on the other two questions? surely somone can provide a link to the ROE for this area, I have had a quick search.
April 7th, 2010  
A Can of Man
 
 
It happens.
I cannot find the original tape but FOX News actually used this very clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1jD7v2ucBc
Ignore the commentary but you can see that the Taliban fighters are completely oblivious to the presence of the Apaches here as well.
April 7th, 2010  
perseus
 
 
According to this source, the video may have been copied several times and the original images would have had finer resolution

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/6...pe_us_military
April 7th, 2010  
-- Dusty
 
 
I realize this is war, but I fail to see the RPG, I fail to see the weapons, and these guys are supposed to be well trained in ID'ing those. Well, I saw nothing of the sort. If anything they should have called in the ground pounders.
The kids are clear in one of the videos. So much for skillful observation.

I do not feel this was an intentional fluck up, but they did try to cover it up.

I'm wondering how Reuters is handling this, though. What is their view on the videos?
 


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