Why they hate (U.S.)

To be honest, I doubt that US military can do much in Iran.
1. It will be hard to find position from which they can attack Iran. Probably not any neighbor will allow to US troops to use their ground to attack Iran. So they will have to force Iraq to do so, and that will countinue Iraq war. Pakistan is nuclear force, and Turkey is pretty strong so USA can't make them ally. Now I don't know maybe Turkey would be in, but Erdogan have a lot of domestic problems so he can't afford a war.
2. Getting supplies to troops is second problem. Iran will lock Persian Golf, and use special forces to train insurgents behind US backs. If we know that supplies will have to go thru Iraq or/and Kurdistan, that is problem of it's own.
3. Most of Iran are Mountains. It is defenders terrain where planes, tanks and artillery are much less effective.
4. Iranians are warriors by nature, and they will probably defend their land to the last drop of blood. And they can mobilize millions of troops. At least 4 M. US military isn't big enough to deal with so many enemies, even if most of them are conscripts armed with AKs and RPGs. They can still dig trenches and be dangerous. So if USA want win, it will have to draft, and produce more weapons. That is extremely expensive and unpopular.
5. Iranian air defense is developing but they have plenty of good anti-tank weapons. They might get S 300V, and that system with ambush tactics can produce enough losses to US Air force (including here aircraft carriers components) to push them out of Iran.
6. And finally if Russian aren't OK with attacking Iran, they can easily supply them with more modern weapons (specially AA weapons) thru Caspian sea.
So no politician in US will openly say that some country is to big bite to chew, but many are. They can do some air attacks on some nuclear facility, but most of it is deeply under ground, and spread all over the country. It will only make beast wounded and angry. Don't forget that constitution of Iran prohibit it to start any war.
 
yeah, if i would run an oil country oppossing the U.S., i would mass AA Weapons. But i am not sure, which ones are effective against stealth bombers, though.

Or what to do against those drones.
 
Well all are but on reduced range (for example SA-3 is shooting F 117 planes just fine on 1/3 of it's radar range). Fighter planes are also good with guns and heat seeking missiles. You have NEBO class of radars which have no problem detecting stealth planes (I believe Iran have at least 1 of those).
 
From an angle of Chinese,I found these European very like propagander about " their civil wars", I think these white guys almost made hundreds of war movies about Hilter German against other European countries! From 1945-2013. I am boring watch these war movie, it is waste my time.

Sure ,these white in the moive always play their people as victims under Nazi German. But they forgot their dirty jobs on other race rest the planet. Many white is a good actor by natural.


As I know, about sixty-millions American are the descendant of German, So the the US fight against Geriman in world war 2. was German killed German?
I can't understand what's the point, these white( European) propagate about their civil war! Brag about a Amiercan soldier very bravery kill a German soldier in the war movie?
What's purpose of these white guys shoot many war movies? Want to commemorate something?

The white ,could you stop propagate your "civil war" to the Earth people?
 
Where that come from? Some people likes war movies, some don't, if you don't like them be free not to watch them. WW2 wasn't civil war.
 
How many dirty jobs and crime these white guys do with African people, American Indian and Asian people?

These European, how dare you play you families and your people as victims in the war movie?


udaka said:
From an angle of Chinese,I found these European very like propagander about " their civil wars", I think these white guys almost made hundreds of war movies about Hilter German against other European countries! From 1945-2013. I am boring watch these war movie, it is waste my time.

Sure ,these white in the moive always play their people as victims under Nazi German. But they forgot their dirty jobs on other race rest the planet. Many white is a good actor by natural.


As I know, about sixty-millions American are the descendant of German, So the the US fight against Geriman in world war 2. was German killed German?
I can't understand what's the point, these white( European) propagate about their civil war! Brag about a Amiercan soldier very bravery kill a German soldier in the war movie?
What's purpose of these white guys shoot many war movies? Want to commemorate something?

The white ,could you stop propagate your "civil war" to the Earth people?
Click to expand...
 
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They are doing same thing to white people too, believe me. And to their people too. Money is more important than people, that is capitalism; cruel, unhuman, monstrous...
 
Because i am lazy i just post wiki refering to the chinese civil war, took place in the same time frame as when Hitler raised to power, the WWII and Cold war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Civil_War

No, country is save from a civil war. And the european wars were sort of a civil war...among white people and even people of the same racial origins(they look exactly the same) cause of french and german influence in all these ages, races are mixed.

But strong cultures and nationalism used their propaganda to made it all possible and motivate their people for it. What is Japan, Korea, Tibet for China? Breakaway Provinces?

I really don't think anyone is innocent. I do not believe or consider native americans are innocent either. If they woud have formed a big enough civilzation, and some were big and cruel like the aztecs for example and mayas, they would invade too, if its needed.
I mean look at their cruel human sacrafice rituals and their wars.

Humans are alltogether just bad. Society hasn't developed much since the ancient times. Population increased meaning there are more evil people in the world than in any previous time and they do not care about their skin colour.

So there is absolutely no reasion to feel save just cause there is peace right now. History will repeat itself sooner or later.

There is a good chance a possible next world war will not start in Europe this time around.
 
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Good analyse, that mean US would't send land force on the territory of Iran, If US send armor force attack Iran, but can M1A1 climb up the mountain in Iran?obviously not.They just deploy the war plane bomb,bomb, bomb, But Iran didn't worry about the land battle at all.:jump:



From my view, developed weapons from out-space is the best methods deal with air pows of US.
For instance, lauch air to air missiles and laser from deep space shoot the war plane of enemy!

The US warplane fly high ,the land-base anti-missile can not reach them? No problem.we fly more high.:drink:



1193061625091940855.jpg


CheefCoach said:
To be honest, I doubt that US military can do much in Iran.
1. It will be hard to find position from which they can attack Iran. Probably not any neighbor will allow to US troops to use their ground to attack Iran. So they will have to force Iraq to do so, and that will countinue Iraq war. Pakistan is nuclear force, and Turkey is pretty strong so USA can't make them ally. Now I don't know maybe Turkey would be in, but Erdogan have a lot of domestic problems so he can't afford a war.
2. Getting supplies to troops is second problem. Iran will lock Persian Golf, and use special forces to train insurgents behind US backs. If we know that supplies will have to go thru Iraq or/and Kurdistan, that is problem of it's own.
3. Most of Iran are Mountains. It is defenders terrain where planes, tanks and artillery are much less effective.
4. Iranians are warriors by nature, and they will probably defend their land to the last drop of blood. And they can mobilize millions of troops. At least 4 M. US military isn't big enough to deal with so many enemies, even if most of them are conscripts armed with AKs and RPGs. They can still dig trenches and be dangerous. So if USA want win, it will have to draft, and produce more weapons. That is extremely expensive and unpopular.
5. Iranian air defense is developing but they have plenty of good anti-tank weapons. They might get S 300V, and that system with ambush tactics can produce enough losses to US Air force (including here aircraft carriers components) to push them out of Iran.
6. And finally if Russian aren't OK with attacking Iran, they can easily supply them with more modern weapons (specially AA weapons) thru Caspian sea.
So no politician in US will openly say that some country is to big bite to chew, but many are. They can do some air attacks on some nuclear facility, but most of it is deeply under ground, and spread all over the country. It will only make beast wounded and angry. Don't forget that constitution of Iran prohibit it to start any war.
Click to expand...
 
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In fact US have enough problems of their own, it is better american do not interfere other countries. Instead of always thinking bombing other countries, Better to start making love (or trade)instead of trying to start wars. American Never learn lessons from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistaneh?
 
Young nations always likes wars. Old nations are already sick of all wars they had. And you can't steal oil with love, or conquer the world.
 
Sorry for going slightly off topic but can someone explain the whole issue about Snowden? I keep seeing his name everywhere but as far as I know he gave up secrets about the US Government?
 
He gave Intel to newspaper about NSA spying all American citizens (like we all didn't know that) and spying some officials of another nations (like they didn't know that), and that USA is spying China (also big surprise). He is embarrassment to US Government and they want him death (that is how much they care about their first amendment). China profit the most, because USA was beaching about China spying and hacking on USA (and it turns out USA do the same).
 
Except, neither Manning or Snowden did it for pecuniary gain. That is something to think about. But let's look at those busted for spying and those busted for whistleblowing....

Larry Wu-Tai Chin– Money, and he did it for China.
Noshir Gowadia– Money, and he did it for China.
Kendall Myers– Traitor, and he did it for Cuba.
Sharon M. Scranage– Unknown, and she did it for Ghana.
Stewart Nozette– Money, and he did it for Israel (allegedly).
Jonathan Pollard– Money, and he did it for Israel.
William Kampiles– Money, and he did it for Russia.
Harold James Nicholson– Money, and he did it for Russia.
George Trofimoff– Money and he did it for Russia.
David Sheldon Boone– Money, and he did it for Russia.
Aldrich Ames– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
David Henry Barnett– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
Ronald Pelton– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
Richard Miller (agent)– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
John Anthony Walker– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
Samuel Dickstein (congressman)– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
Harry Dexter White– Traitor, and he did it for the Soviet Union
Christopher John Boyce– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
Andrew Daulton Lee– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union.
Robert Hanssen– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union and then Russia.
Earl Edwin Pitts– Money, and he did it for the Soviet Union and then Russia.

And the king of traitorous bastards that should have their rocks cut off:
Clayton John Lonetree– He did it for the Soviet Union for, of all things, so he could get laid (OMFG!). Google him and tell me different.

Two of uncertain motive....
William Martin– Defected to the Soviet Union.
Bernon Mitchell– Defected to the Soviet Union.
...Allegedly were whistleblowers, but then true whistleblowers won't give the info to the opponents.

These guys did it, but NOT for money or (like the king of dickless wonders Lonetree) some poontang, instead they did it in the name of what is right. No moneys exchanged–

  • John Kiriakou– Whistleblower.
  • Edward Snowden– Whistleblower.
  • William Binney– Whistleblower.
  • Thomas Drake– Whistleblower.
  • Shamai Leibowitz– Whistleblower.
  • Mark Klein– Whistleblower.
  • Thomas Tamm– Whistleblower.
  • Russ Tice– Whistleblower.
  • Bradley Manning– Whistleblower.
Some of the stuff they did was totally stupid, but then considering that no monies or other pecuniary interests were ever exchanged, I think it rules out espionage.
 
I agree with Dusty, Snowden and Manning were not spies. A spy is someone who betrays his country for the sake of another (or himself). These two idiots actually thought they were doing something righteous, which is worse as there is nothing more dangerous than a runaway ideologue.

All countries has its 'dirty deeds' department. Whether you are in the military, the CIA, the FBI or the NSA you know are going to see the 'REAL' world at work, not the candy-ass phony world of the Kardashians and the Beibers the sheep are spoon fed via the media.

Don't like what you see? I don't blame you and that's fine. Your options are

1. report it to a superior and let him decide if it warrants action
2. ask for a transfer to another department
3. resign.

But what you don't do is take the matter into your own hands. You were hired on the agreement to keep your mouth shut, no matter what you saw/know that's the deal. Violate your oath of silence and you will pay severely for it.

Snowden an Manning are not spies, but they need to spend a good long while in jail to think if violating their oath was worth it. Not life, as there must be a barrier between the idiots (them) and the real traitors (peoples like Pollard, Hansen and Ames)
 
The fact is that, they were not spies, they were in fact a breed that, not so long ago your government were going to introduce legislation to protect,... "Whistle blowers". The people who keep the bad guys from getting too far out of hand.

Very little if any, of what was released was of great Military importance. Their biggest mistakes were that they embarrassed a lot of people whom the taxpayers entrusted to know and behave better. People in places where they are otherwise protected from discovery, people that have introduced laws that protect them from answering for their guile and stupidity lying to the very people who pay their very ample salaries.

In all honesty, put yourself in the whistle blowers place, your first option would achieve nothing except put you in grave danger, the remaining two would effectively achieve nothing.
 
-- Dusty said:
Except, neither Manning or Snowden did it for pecuniary gain. That is something to think about. But let's look at those busted for spying and those busted for whistleblowing....

---snip---
Click to expand...

You forgot one of the most important,... Daniel Ellsberg, one of the few recognised as a true hero. A man whose actions probably helped save more US lives than any other single individual in the Vietnam War.

In every generation, you will find one person who is willing to risk his freedom or maybe even his life, to uncover the deceit and lies of those in power.
 
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mmarsh said:
Don't like what you see? I don't blame you and that's fine. Your options are

1. report it to a superior and let him decide if it warrants action
2. ask for a transfer to another department
3. resign.

But what you don't do is take the matter into your own hands. You were hired on the agreement to keep your mouth shut, no matter what you saw/know that's the deal. Violate your oath of silence and you will pay severely for it.
Click to expand...

Wait so your theory is that if over a couple of years working at a company (any company) you discover that its management is knowingly breaking several major laws and spying on its owners you would:

1. report it to a superior and let him decide if it warrants action
2. ask for a transfer to another department
3. resign.

I would suggest that there is an option 4.

4. Report it to the company owners and let them decide whether they are ok with it.

Manning I don't know about but it is clear that Snowden chose option 4 and I would suggest that it was in fact the only right course of action as the other three are either useless or make you an accomplice.
 
I look at the situation, and it reminds me back when I worked for a federal agency in the US Government. I found some conduct that was very inappropriate, I documented it and then went to my supervisor. I told him it's uncalled for, it's in violation of the regulations that govern our agency, and it's in many cases a clear violation of the Constitutional rights of the citizens involved (and in some cases even that of the federal employees). He told me too bad. If I didn't like it he can reassign me. So I quit in disgust. I didn't go around telling the world, I just refused to participate. Yeah I no longer had a paycheck, but that's fine by me. I'll survive. To hell with everyone else and how they viewed it- at least I could sleep each night knowing that *I* stood for what's right.
 
-- Dusty said:
I look at the situation, and it reminds me back when I worked for a federal agency in the US Government. I found some conduct that was very inappropriate, I documented it and then went to my supervisor. I told him it's uncalled for, it's in violation of the regulations that govern our agency, and it's in many cases a clear violation of the Constitutional rights of the citizens involved (and in some cases even that of the federal employees). He told me too bad. If I didn't like it he can reassign me. So I quit in disgust. I didn't go around telling the world, I just refused to participate. Yeah I no longer had a paycheck, but that's fine by me. I'll survive. To hell with everyone else and how they viewed it- at least I could sleep each night knowing that *I* stood for what's right.
Click to expand...

Knowing you stand for what is "Right" is certainly a very admirable trait, but if you do nothing to correct that which you know to be wrong, you are effectively in the same boat as those committing the wrongdoing.

Remembering that it was the US prosecutor Robert H. Jackson at Nuremburg, who dismissed the German defence "Befel ist befel" (Orders are orders), even though they were only often obeyed under pain of death, pushing hard and succeeding in having Germans hung for doing just that.

As Edmund Burke said, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing". (to stop it)
 
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