This is why I support CCW

The main problem is a lot of people do not understand guns, are not educated in them, and therefore are afraid or mislead about them.

I have witnessed myself first hand people changing their tune on guns after being instructed on how to use one and fire it for the first time at a target. They usually make a 180 degree turn in their thoughts on guns.

I really dislike the theory of just making something illegal or banning it is the solution to solving problems, time and time again this has proved not to work.
 
I've been waiting to see what information was to emerge once the dust and hyperbole had settled - news stories on big events get quite a few facts wrong in the first days and then correct them later. Well, we now know the killer was deranged (easy to guess that) - but he was certifiable many months prior to the shooting. I think there should be some national law that when an individual is assesed as psychologically imbalanced that privacy rights and laws come second to protecting the community, and if a PIP (psycologically imbalanced person) is found to have legally - and of course illegally, purchased or acquired guns from their past, of any description, the guns should be confiscated. The right to bear arms should not be extended, and I think was never intended to be extended, to to PIPs.
 
Padre said:
I've been waiting to see what information was to emerge once the dust and hyperbole had settled - news stories on big events get quite a few facts wrong in the first days and then correct them later. Well, we now know the killer was deranged (easy to guess that) - but he was certifiable many months prior to the shooting. I think there should be some national law that when an individual is assesed as psychologically imbalanced that privacy rights and laws come second to protecting the community, and if a PIP (psycologically imbalanced person) is found to have legally - and of course illegally, purchased or acquired guns from their past, of any description, the guns should be confiscated. The right to bear arms should not be extended, and I think was never intended to be extended, to to PIPs.
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In theory that is how it already is supposed to work, however the problem is many states do not seem to report this to the national database. I'm guessing that may change....
 
Wow, I see not a whole lot has changed! It was really enlightning to read about this ordeal. Banning guns, allowing them, gun knowledge, everybody grasping the idea on who is shooting whom etc. etc.... Has anybody actually pointed out that you might miss?
I read a lot of: I'd shoot him in the face! But what would you do if, under strain and full of adrenaline, you whip out your gun, take aim and blow an innocent student's head off? Is that just colateral damage? And for our gun waving friends I have another one. This Choi-guy was a "normal, legal cww man until he snapped. In my opinion there are a lot more people ready to snap at some point. I'd prefer to see him running around with a "broom stick or flash-light" instead of a loaded gun.

Guns are like expensive toys, everybody can buy one, only a few know how to handle one. And the sales-man doesn't know who can and who can't.
 
Ted said:
Wow, I see not a whole lot has changed! It was really enlightning to read about this ordeal. Banning guns, allowing them, gun knowledge, everybody grasping the idea on who is shooting whom etc. etc.... Has anybody actually pointed out that you might miss?
I read a lot of: I'd shoot him in the face! But what would you do if, under strain and full of adrenaline, you whip out your gun, take aim and blow an innocent student's head off? Is that just colateral damage? And for our gun waving friends I have another one. This Choi-guy was a "normal, legal cww man until he snapped. In my opinion there are a lot more people ready to snap at some point. I'd prefer to see him running around with a "broom stick or flash-light" instead of a loaded gun.

Guns are like expensive toys, everybody can buy one, only a few know how to handle one. And the sales-man doesn't know who can and who can't.
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The legality of this man owning a gun is under question and according to the Gun Control Act of 1968 he should not have been allowed purchase any firearm post 2005, you clearly did not read enough throughly.

As for missing, that is a risk I would chance versus 32 people dead. The likelihood of missing at close range (like it would be) is rather slim. Most people that have a CCW have gone through at least basic training, have probably been around guns for a long time, and are typically clear headed individuals.

Furthermore the statistical evidence is so out of balanced of how many times bystanders have intervened with their CCW and stopped a crime or saved a life that it becomes a "no brainer".
 
Ted said:
Wow, I see not a whole lot has changed! It was really enlightning to read about this ordeal. Banning guns, allowing them, gun knowledge, everybody grasping the idea on who is shooting whom etc. etc.... Has anybody actually pointed out that you might miss?
I read a lot of: I'd shoot him in the face! But what would you do if, under strain and full of adrenaline, you whip out your gun, take aim and blow an innocent student's head off? Is that just colateral damage? And for our gun waving friends I have another one. This Choi-guy was a "normal, legal cww man until he snapped. In my opinion there are a lot more people ready to snap at some point. I'd prefer to see him running around with a "broom stick or flash-light" instead of a loaded gun.

Guns are like expensive toys, everybody can buy one, only a few know how to handle one. And the sales-man doesn't know who can and who can't.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster <----Kind of blows the theory of restricting gun ownership out of the water.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=home+made+explosive <----Next thing you know they will be taking our bathroom cleaners and hair dyes and hygiene products away from us just in case some nutjob wants to use it as a bomb.

Anyone, Anyone, Anyone, with a little self education and motivation can make a bomb. You can probably ask some of the members on this forum, or go down to your local recruiter's office and ask about how effective IEDs really are. Improvised Explosive Devices, yeah...improvised, made from scrap, not manufactured, hand made from various items not intended for that use etc. You can make enough home-made C-4 in your bathtub to make the Oklahoma City bombing look like a firecracker.

We all would prefer that everyone just got along and there was peace and harmony all over the world. So life being what it is, this guy got it in his head to go out with a bang and took a bunch of people with him.

I would prefer to have seen someone have a weapon nearby or on-hand to have stopped this guy well before the 2nd person got shot. But life sucks and he killed people for whatever reasons he had in his head.

As for the salesman knowing who does and does not know how to handle them...that is like expecting the salesman to make sure that a woman knows which sanitary napkin to use for her period and making sure she uses it.

But there is a valid offshoot to your statement that I will make an observation on: If firearms in general were not legally available unless you went to a state controlled firearm safety class, I believe this would help increase awareness. This is not the same as saying you can not own a weapon, just saying you need to attend classes in the safe handling and shooting of a weapon, kind of like an extended wait period for handguns. Then again some may view this as an infringement of the right to bear arms.
 
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I made my first IED when I was 14. One of my creations left a crater in a field in Colorado that was 4 feet deep and big enough to put a car in. It doesn't take special materials... and NO I wont tell any of you young whipper snappers what materials so don't ask... and a little know how coupled with some balls to play with something that would remove even the ability of dental records to ID your steaming remains.
 
More recently, just a few miles up the road from Virginia Tech, two law school students ran to fetch their legally owned firearm to stop a madman from slaughtering anybody and everybody he pleased. These brave, average, armed citizens neutralized him pronto.
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Anybody have any proof of this? Last I heard (and I think the rest of the world will agree with my, with the exception of Ted Nugent) Cho killed himself by his own hand, without any help from a couple law school students.
 
Damien435 said:
Anybody have any proof of this? Last I heard (and I think the rest of the world will agree with my, with the exception of Ted Nugent) Cho killed himself by his own hand, without any help from a couple law school students.
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He is talking about a different incident at different school.
 
Marinerhodes

In some states what you talk about exists...Such states as CT and MA require you to take a safety course, get letters of recommendation (about your character), and an approval from your local police chief for you to obtain your CCW alowing you to purchase and carry a handgun.

Links of reference:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=ct
http://www.packing.org/state/connecticut/

And myself; I have numerous friends with CCW as well as members of my family. I myself plan on getting one very soon.
 
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Donkey said:
Marinerhodes

In some states what you talk about exists...Such states as CT and MA require you to take a safety course, get letters of recommendation (about your character), and an approval from your local police chief for you to obtain your CCW alowing you to purchase and carry a handgun.

Links of reference:

http://www.bradycampaign.org/legislation/state/viewstate.php?st=ct
http://www.packing.org/state/connecticut/

And myself; I have numerous friends with CCW as well as members of my family. I myself plan on getting one very soon.
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For a CCW yeah...but just to purchase a handgun? What if no one knew me well enough to give me character references hehe?

I was speaking mainly of just to purchase a handgun you had to go thru safety courses and have it registered in a state/federal computer that you attended the class and so on and so forth.
 
In the state of CT you can not purchase a handgun unless you have a CCW, in fact you cant even borrow one or transport one in your car without a CCW.
 
Florida law

You must be 18 years of age or older to purchase a Long gun (Rifle - Shotgun) and ammunition for a long gun.

You must be 21 years of age or older to purchase a Sidearm (Pistol - Revolver) and ammunition for a sidearm.

If you are a civilian, you must go throught a background check and a five day waiting period.

If you are a Law Enforcement Officer, you must go through a background check and a 3 day waiting period.

If you are either and have a Florida Conceal Carry Weapon Permit, you must go through a background check and then you can take your firearm home on day of purchase.

Florida is a Shall Issue State in regards to the CCW. What that means it that the state cannot say no to your permit if you can have it. Basicly, New York can decicided whether or not if they will give you a CCW permit.

Florida by law must give you one if you pass. If you have no criminal record, no mental health history, no domestic violence history, nothing you're clean. The State of Florida must give you a CCW permit. There is no reason why the state cannot. The states that are May Issue take alot of power into who gets them and hwo doesn't. It comes down to politics and money. If you are well connected in New York, you get one. If not sucks to be you.

Not in Florida.....

To get a CCW permit in florida, you must attened a CW Course thought by a certfified NRA/Police Instructor. The instructor will teach you about where you can carry and where you cannot, when you can draw and when you cannot, etc... You must fire a wepaon in front of said instructor and prove that you know how to handle your firearm. Once that is done the instructor signs you off.

After that you fill out the state packet, get your finger prints done, and mail the packet in plus a check.

The State has 90 days to review your packet and run the background check. WIthin those 90 days if you pass the background check and such they will mail you your CCW Permit.

Few exceptions for the instructor course.

1. You are prior or current US Military. If prior service you send off your DD214, if current you send off your current firearm qualification records.

2. Current Law Enforcement. You can carry off duty without a CCW if your PD allows so under Departmental SOPs. If not you can apply for a CCW and send off your current firearm qualification records.

3. Professional Competitive Shooter. You must prove that you are a competitive shooter and you must show a instructor that you are one, if the instructor agrees he signs you off and you do not need to take the course. (That is what I sent in, at the time I was a sponsored shooter. I shot IDPA and IPSC. The gun store I worked for sponsored me. I was a walking billboard for them. I also sent in my DD214)

In Florida, you cannot carry a firearm on or about your person in public without a CCW. Your home and business are exceptions. You can opnely carry if you choose to because your home and business is your castle.

Your Vehcile is also an exception. You can have a loaded firearm if it is securely encased...

790.25 (5)(5) Lawful Ownership, Possession, and Use of Firearms and Other Weapons
It is not necessary to have a license or permit to carry a loaded firearm in a private vehicle, so long as the gun is "securely encased". Florida law defines a weapon as being securely encased if the firearm is in a glove compartment, whether or not locked, in a snapped holster (not worn on your body!), in a zippered gun case or in a box or other container that requires a lid or cover to be lifted or opened in order to gain access to the firearm. These restrictions do not apply to any person who holds a valid Florida Concealed Weapon License or a reciprocal state license/permit.
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I reckon that the answer lays in only two options. Either you arm everybody or you have everybody disarmed. (Except the people who are supposed to wear one). I sincerely prefer option two, but people who call themselves realists, will go for option one. Foul times we live in!
 
Ted said:
I reckon that the answer lays in only two options. Either you arm everybody or you have everybody disarmed. (Except the people who are supposed to wear one). I sincerely prefer option two, but people who call themselves realists, will go for option one. Foul times we live in!
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No silly you will never be able to disarm everyone...If you do they will just make weapons of their own, not hard to do.

The option is to educate the public and make sure the database systems are updated and used.
 
But the thing is Ted, even though it's extremely sad, we are getting to the point where teachers may HAVE to carry weapons to prevent things like VT from happening.
 
C/1Lt Henderson said:
But the thing is Ted, even though it's extremely sad, we are getting to the point where teachers may HAVE to carry weapons to prevent things like VT from happening.
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Raise the cost of going to VT and all other colleges by $5,000.00 a year per Student and hire Well Armed, Well Trained, Well Equiped, and Well Paid Campus Police.
Raise the cost by $10,000.00 a year per Student and add Bulletproof Doors with automatic locks so Students need buzzed into the Classroom after class starts, and the same doors at the Dorms.

If Parents truly care about their kids safety then they will come up with the extra money, or just make Student Loans accessible to cover the increase.

Problem solved, and no Laws need changed.
 
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The thing is Henderson that I don't understand why the US is the only country I know, which is considering these Draconic measures. We also have criminals with guns but they target mainly at counterparts. This is a nice side-effect for our judicial system, it reduces their work load.

But rarely do criminals randomly target civilians. This makes me believe that easy acces to guns probably is the cause. Before I would arm an entire nation I would try to dis-arm them... If everybody is truely horrified by these massacres they wouldn't object. If they do object then they aren't horrified enough.... at least that is the impression I get.
 
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