This is why I support CCW - Page 10




 
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This is why I support CCW
 
April 19th, 2007  
Rob Henderson
 
 
This is why I support CCW
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
First of all, most people on the left supported and the right supported arming pilots. When the bill was proposed, it was the Bush Administration and certain pilots unions that were initially against it. They both later changed their minds.

Secondly, walking around the Arizona countryside is a much different situation that walking around downtown Chicago. People are really stressed in large cities. When I was a teen some jerk pulled a gun on my dad in D.C. because my dad had bumped his van while attempted to park.

As was said earlier, there are some places the guns do not belong. Large Cities, schools, hospitals, office buildings (as we saw last week in Detroit), transportantion systems (including cars, road rage is a frequent cause of shootings) and anywhere else people are likely to stress out.

And we DO have reliable armed people in hospitals, subways, etc. They are called the NYPD, and they are good at what they do. At least, as far as cities go, leave law-enforcement to the pros, not the wannabe vigilantes.

The Countryside I grant you, could be more flexible.
So answer me this, where was the NYPD at Virginia Tech?
April 19th, 2007  
SNowblind
 
I'm only 17, but, honestly.....there is no need to allow college KIDS (the 18-22 type) applicable with CCW, I mean, honestly, thats just overkill. Having one armed security guard per 1500 students is perfectly fine, in addition to staff members also. Allowing the students themselves to have CCW is just bullsh***ty.

Perhaps it would be fine for certain kids (ex military, etc) to be allowed for CCW, as the whole "wolf in sheeps clothing" is a great idea.

Seriously, I don't understand why the Fed doesn't allow public school teachers to be armed.
April 19th, 2007  
Damien435
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNowblind
I'm only 17, but, honestly.....there is no need to allow college KIDS (the 18-22 type) applicable with CCW, I mean, honestly, thats just overkill. Having one armed security guard per 1500 students is perfectly fine, in addition to staff members also. Allowing the students themselves to have CCW is just bullsh***ty.

Perhaps it would be fine for certain kids (ex military, etc) to be allowed for CCW, as the whole "wolf in sheeps clothing" is a great idea.

Seriously, I don't understand why the Fed doesn't allow public school teachers to be armed.
Apparently you're too young to realize that your teacher's are far from infallible and someone working sixty hours a week and getting paid only slightly over minimum wage probably isn't the most stable individual. I had a teacher in high school who believes that the pyramids were built by aliens and spent a whole day teaching us the "Flat Earth Theory", would you trust that guy with a gun? I wouldn't.

The best thing the teachers and students can do is remember their drills, lock the doors and hide, no hero b******t because if your family has a choice they will always choose their son or daughter who hid under their desk as opposed to their dead hero.

I don't know if any of you paid attention, but the Va. Tech campus police (unknown to most people UPD is a real police department) appeared to have been on the scene instantly once it was known that this wasn't a domestic issue but a psycho on the loose and unlike the police at Columbine who appeared to be waiting outside the Campus Police, Blacksburg Police and Virginia State police were moving in immediately to put an end to the violence. In some instances we have learned a thing or two from Columbine, but in other areas (such as the media coverage) we have not learned a thing about how to handle these situations.
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This is why I support CCW
April 19th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
I know plenty of people who own Guns legally who believe in an Invisible Guy who lives in the sky, an Invisible Guy who controls everything in the Heavens and on the Earth, an Invisible Guy who made the Earth in 6 days, the same Invisible Guy who flooded the entire Earth a mere 6000 some odd years ago, telling Noah beforehand to build one Ship and load up 2 of each animal and then load his family aboard, then have to repopulate the entire Earth, I guess just going from continent to continent dropping off Animals and People.
April 19th, 2007  
Bugfatty
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
I don't know if any of you paid attention, but the Va. Tech campus police (unknown to most people UPD is a real police department) appeared to have been on the scene instantly once it was known that this wasn't a domestic issue but a psycho on the loose and unlike the police at Columbine who appeared to be waiting outside the Campus Police, Blacksburg Police and Virginia State police were moving in immediately to put an end to the violence.
Police arrive at seen and immediately take action? But apparently not before the killer had time to run a few errands, chain some doors shut, kill 30 people and then kill himself.

Call me a hard ass but I think they were tad bit slow in there actions.
April 19th, 2007  
Padre
 
 

Gator
April 19th, 2007  
5.56X45mm
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugfatty
Police arrive at seen and immediately take action? But apparently not before the killer had time to run a few errands, chain some doors shut, kill 30 people and then kill himself.

Call me a hard ass but I think they were tad bit slow in there actions.
A police officer or firefighter cannot just run into a gunfight/fire. By doing so they might themselves become injured and that you further compound the situtation. You cannot save people when you yourself need to be saved.

VA Tech PD had no clue where the gunman was, how many of them there were, what did he/they look like, what weapons they had, etc... They took proper action, they advanced using cover and concealment. They searched the area for any possible guman/gunmen (they didn't know it was one gunman). They secured the areas they searched. Once the area was secured, EMT came in and did their job. VA Tech is a huge place, it has over 15,000 students. VA Tech is a city in of itself.

It's not like the movies where the police just jump straight into the firefight.

Also the first shooting was treated as a crime scene. Police believed that it was a murder suicide or a murder. They believed that the gunman had fleed the scene of the crime (which 99% of the time that happens.)

Different PDs have different SOPs. Most PDs in South Florida run off this (including my department).

Quote:
RAT (Rapid Action Tactics). It's designed for an active shooter like what happened at VA Tech.

Active Shooter - Someone that is shooting at persons. Not a hostage situtation. A mass murder. Shoots are being fired. Actibe Shooter does not happen is a gunman kills someone and then hides.

The arriving officers would go straight towards to shooting and try to disable the shooter. Normal tactics are thrown out of the window. Searching rooms, securing doors, detaining suspects, etc....

RAT works with four officers. The first four at the shooting form a diamond formation. Point officer covers the front, left and right side officer cover the left and right, rear officer covers the rear. Taking stairwells and such are a little tricky. The involves cutting the pie and such. It's hard to discribe. But the officers advance up the stairwell in a way that each officer covers each other.

When RAT goes down a hallway with classes, the formation goes straight in. The point officer is responsible for any and all targets from the front, side and rear the same. Since there is an active shooter all of the classes are bypassed. The formations allows for the officers to cover each other incase a shooter pops out of a class room or comes around the corner of a hallway. The side officers look through the windows of the doorways and such.

The formation can also work with five. The fifth officer would be in the center of the diamond formation cover the top (looking for shooters from a second floor or roof edge.)
If a student or teacher was armed with a firearm by legal means (conceal carry). This situtation wouldn't have turned out the way it did.
April 19th, 2007  
Rob Henderson
 
 
And that's the point people fail to see. Just because the law is armed, doesn't mean they have a snowballs chance in hell of stopping the gunman before he has time to kill 33 people.

Law enforcement cannot CANNOT just run into a firefight.
April 19th, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by C/1Lt Henderson
And that's the point people fail to see. Just because the law is armed, doesn't mean they have a snowballs chance in hell of stopping the gunman before he has time to kill 33 people.

Law enforcement cannot CANNOT just run into a firefight.
That Depends on the Department. In NYC they try to have a cop on every block. Its not always successful (its a Big City) but it close. The cops reaction time can be very fast.
April 19th, 2007  
CABAL
 
 
Politicizing this event to a pro-Gun or anti-gun debate is disrespectful to the victims and to the Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Community. I personally do not like your propaganda posters you have posted at this time, therefore I suggest you to stop.

You can spout your interpretation to the Second Admendment all you want but I personally do not want potential disgruntled youths carrying firearms into class or on campus. It is dangerous and unstable. In doing so, you are maximizing the risks of someone being shot and killed.
 


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