Why no love for India? - Page 4

View Poll Results :Will India or China rise up in the future to take the lead in Asia?
India 11 26.19%
China 29 69.05%
Other (please specify) 2 4.76%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

November 17th, 2004  
I think the most basic answer to 'why' India gets no love is simple:
Relentless self-promotion. China does it masterfully, and India doesn't do it at all. It is because of this that incredible stereotypes and ignorances abound about India's cabibilities.

I, though, would have to vote China. No doubt China has a significant lead in the race, but to discount India as even a contender, as some people here seem to be wont to do, is only myopia.

China will get there first, but India's rise to great power status in inevitable. And as both progress, the gap will close.

I'll post some interesting articles comparing the Indian and Chinese economies tomorrow, when I have the time.


What hogwash.

Originally Posted by Precision
1) religious rivarly and the fact that there are still many conflicts( armed) between religions
The conflict between India and Pakistan is a political one. For as much as the Paks want to claim they represent Islam, there are more Muslims in India than Pakistan! Indian Muslims are fully integrated into Indian society, and hold the same values as the rest of us: secularism and pluralsim.

There is a reason that the Indian Muslim, though he is part of the second-largest Muslim nationality in the world, has never been a part of any significant Islamist movement. Even in Kashmir, the Islamist terrorists are Pakistani and Afghan (versus the Kashmiri police force which is nearly all Indian Muslim.)

Even in terms of riots, in the big picture, they are insignificant.

2) india isnt all democratic...... its like south korea, but on a larger basis
What crap.

3) india has alot... alot of umployment
As does China, and like China, unemployment is going down. In fact, in every economic or social measure, India is improving exponentially. The percent of people who live below the poverty level has decreased over 20% in 15 years, and each year a bigger increase (this year, 2+%). That is including population growth as well.

4) indias population will outburst its own land( they dont have one child policy)
Actually, India has more arable land than China has. Really, what childish arguments to make.

5) India relies on the moonsoon seasons for food since their land is very dry and alot of it is on mountain plateau where water is scarce, thereby if the world climate changes india will be hit hard
From armchair commando to armchair weatherman?

Actually, studies have shown that come global warming, India will be 'benefited', in terms of climate anyway. The increased sea levels will force the monsoons to go all the way into the Thar. Furthermore, global warming will actually make the tropics more temperate (and the northern/southern latitudes warmer, hence a global increase in average temperature.)

6) terriosm still occurs in india, not these days though
Wow, a point I somewhat agree with.

7)indias inferastructure is really in a bad shape, though their trains are top of the line efficient ( a couple thousand could board one train at once)
I agree with you on this point as well. However, spending for infrastructure as increased almost 200% over the last two years, and has become (finally) a priority.

In several months, the country's national multilane highway system, linking every major city even in the most remote parts of India, will be inagurated. Also, the trans-Asian highway, from India to Singapore has recently opened, paving the way for major India-ASEAN investment, etc.

And these are just a few of the major and transnational infrastructure projects.

8) war with pakastan is probaly going to continue
True. However, the conventional military gap (nukes being the great equalizer) between the two countries, too, is increasing exponentially.

9) inefficient military, tiny amount of experience for troops, and their generals along with their military history has seen little conventional warefare
WTF??!? This is the most absurd of all your statements and a fitting encapsulation if the inanity of your entire post! Rather than point out the sky is actually blue, I'd rather first hear you prove to me its green, so to speak.

10) water is very scarse like i said, but another point is that their average drinking amount is 1/5 of world standard, imagine a drought..............................
Like all Asian nations, China included, water has the potential to be a problem, but it certainly isn't a valid arguement against India's rise to power. Interestingly, to nip this very problem in the bud, India is currently undertaking one of the most massive (and massively underreported) engineering projects in the world: the linking of all its major rivers.

India is a large country with a very varied climate. When there is drought in one area, there is often flooding in another; hence, the rivers in drought-hit areas run low while the rivers in rain-hit areas flood over. I'm not qualified to explain the science, but linking the rivers will naturally allow water from the rain-hit areas to flow to the drought-hit areas, and will allow full navigatibility of the major river systems in India.

11) india has little pertrolum resources
And neither does China. India, however, has excellent relations with oil-rich arab states like the UAE and Iran, and the naval muscle to ensure that the oil can be delivered.

China's oil, on the other hand, has to pass right by India, through the Malacca straights, and up the S. China sea to get to China. Not to be dramatic, but China's jugular vein flows right under India's grip.

12) india is predicetd to be very heavily polluted
As is China. However, by all accounts, India's pollution output is hardly going to be exceptional.

In short, your post contains a string of innacurate assertions on India, some that, even if were true, are irrelevant to the fact of India's growth.
November 17th, 2004  
For some reason, the Olympics have a tendency to get everyone's notice and acknowledge the greatness of that certain nation. The USSR, USA, most every country in Europe, China and others have been extremely dominant. But what about India? Well, last Olympics they got 1 medal. So yeah, on the Olympic scene, they're really showing up on the radar.

China has a tendency of threatening its neighbors. Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, the Philipines, Vietnam, Russia ... if you are anywhere close to them you've probably seen a time where they tried to bully and/or threaten the nation you live in. That gets attention and everyone rushes to annalyze the data to determine how much of a threat China really is. India, on the other hand, is more subdued and draws far less attention to itself. The main thing that catches everyone's notice is the tension over Kashmir, and Western media gives that far less attention than it truly merits.
November 17th, 2004  
The main role is played by media, showing only the poverty in India and not her achievements.China has poor people too and also has problems like India as posted by ppl like 'Precision', but their government has full control over the press, and they allow only their achievements to be posted and reported by the media unless there is an overwhelmingly large incident like Tiananmen Square which cannot be kept hidden.
So the general notion is like when someone talks about India, uhh its such a poor country full of lepers and beggars and ppl moving around in rags and full of slaves with their hands tied.
On the other hand if someone talks about China, ppl think about its rich culture, ohh what a powerful nation it is.
I think the media who report about India should be first impaled and then hanged to death.
One thing godofthunder said about the Olympics medal tally is true, we should die of shame for getting only one medal, I acknowledge China's determination in the Olympics.
As rajkhalsa said relentless self-promotion in a skillfull way is also a way for fame, USA does it too.
But things are changing for India slowly, now, that people are coming to know that India is much more than just Taj Mahal and mystic 'sadhus'.

P.S: 'Precision' read the post by rajkhalsa before spewing out more hate/crap.
November 17th, 2004  
A Can of Man
When my old man visited India for business he told me that he has never seen a place more deathly depressing. Just endless masses of the ridiculously poor where even the posession of card board boxes to rest on were something.
He said that upon returning from India to Indonesia he felt that Indonesia looked like heaven compared to it.
Maybe this is why rock and roll stars going to India get hit so hard emotionally and end up doing some serious soul searching... often leading to crap music.

Now that's all 2nd hand information. I haven't been to India myself but I want to. I want to see what exactly it's like. And if that stuff is true I would doubt India's ability. But either way, India's national power seems to derive mostly from it's massive population, which is a pre-requisite for becoming a major world power, but is never a guarantee.
November 17th, 2004  
It's all a game
Originally Posted by Precision

Stay out of our back yards.
And TRY to stay on topic.
Hehe, if you had been telling the Japanese that, I would have some respect for you. But you telling China to stay out of your backyard? Just where is your backyard or did you mistaken the Chinese backyard for yours? hehe... No offence, my friend, you are just too small and not vicious as Japan has proven to be for China to get too serious.

I call the Japanese a typical peninsular nation, which means narrow-minded, highly insecure about themselves, and can easily turn into a super aggressive beast, as they did before. Actually, you Koreans are very similar in that you are also very insecure about yourselves! And I didn't come to this judgment by myself. I used to have many South Korean classmates at grad school. A couple of them were close friends with me. In our private chitchat, they more than once mentioned this.

I also had a few Japanese friends, grad students and professors. None of them, however, showed any of those typical, obnoxious characters. I guess that the Japanese who made their way to the US are not typical Japanese...

OK, on to the topic: India

I have many, you guessed, Indian classmates or schoolmates, too. Most of them do not show the annoying characteristics as I've observed from some Indian politicians and some Indian sites' moderators. So I guess, those who went to the US are a bit different from those who didn't or couldn't go...

How do the ordinary Chinese think about India? "We are both old civilizations. We both deserve to rise again. But India is not what we think about often and compare ourselves with. They probably have no chance of surpassing us in the foreseeable future. The only nation that we want to be peers with is the United States of America! We seem to have love-hate feelings toward the US in that we love the country and their people mostly, but we hate some of their arrogant and ignorant politicians. A fight with the Americans would be a worthy fight. We are going to continue our small fights until we become true equals. Japan? We'll nuke them bastards if they ever try what they did to us..."

See, not much about India. It's all about the US (we emulate) and Japan (we hate)... Hehe... I tried to stay on topic, but just don't have much to say about India, which is typical of the current Chinese thinking. I hope this by itself tells you something.
November 17th, 2004  
India r a very strong developing naion now. They have the power to catch up China. Don't forget the 2004 International economic growth Indian was after China (8.4% right?)

I read about an articled written by a Chinese, who said that the Indians r commonly better than chinese in Scientific researches and academic. Few examples like many Indians work for NASA and other USA special society. India have a good possibility to beat up China in future develiopement.

The article writer also made comparison between China and India. He stated that India r good in IT field, creating softwares and hardware........ Chinese have more stubborn Economic and political basics. both have their own leading points.

However, I hope the rise of India will be a good things as well becoz China coroperate India will create a better world than before.
November 17th, 2004  
It's all a game
I don't think any reasonalable and educated Chinese would under-estimate India. But it seems that we Chinese look forward and compare ourselves with those running ahead of us. If you always look after your shoulder while running, you can't run fast. That's the reason, I guess, that Chinese don't concern themselves too much about India. Our goal is ahead of us, not behind us.

India is running fast, but so is China. China has a burden of a huge population. So does India. China doesn't have so much natural resources as it wishes or as the USA does. Nor does India. China's political system is still crappy, nor is India's democrasy so appealing... and I say this as someone who does know what the Chinese brand of socialism (please forget the communism BS that people love to label the Chinese) is and what democrasy is all about.

If China survives the next 20 to 30 years, without a major war with the USA or many smaller wars with America's surrogates, this century will, no doubt in my mind, be a century of China. And no, I am not less informed than anyone on this forum and I am far less prone to propaganda of any types (Chinese or American, that is) than many here.
November 17th, 2004  
Originally Posted by It's all a game
But India is not what we think about often and compare ourselves with. They probably have no chance of surpassing us in the foreseeable future.
Now now, look at that, Thats exactly what happens once you start to realise your importance and then start belittling others.

Same thing what the West said about China a couple of decades ago.

Oh well, time to read the 'hare and the tortoise story' again for you.

Originally Posted by It's all a game
but just don't have much to say about India, which is typical of the current Chinese thinking. I hope this by itself tells you something.
I know that feeling, the same thing what we feel about the pakis.We don't wanna associate ourselves with them in anyway, at least me.But our hatred towards them is obvious, for the Chinese to think the same way about us i donno......maybe you can explain ?!

Originally Posted by It's all a game
I don't think any reasonalable and educated Chinese would under-estimate India
That means you are uneducated and unreasonable then ? cos a post above you did that.
November 17th, 2004  
It's all a game
Dear Xion,

You need to slow down and read a bit more carefully. I don't under-estimate the Indians. I was summarizing the general opinions I gathered from my reading of the Chinese sites. When I tell about my own thoughts, I provide some basis for them.

Even the general Chinese cyber opinions about India is not belittling, but rather a sense of indifference. They feel that the West (some of them)wishes to see India more successful than China becuase China is a communist system and India a democrasy. So they are like: Let them feel good alright. We'll just keep moving ahead and our goal is to catch up with the Americans far ahead, not any nations even less prosperous than us.

So no, I wouldn't belittle India. I might have done so a bit when I was commenting to that some redneck guy, because his remarks about China tend to border on nonsense, in my opinion. Hehe, even that should be for fun, not really serious.
November 17th, 2004  
China is establishing ties with nations in the Latin American countries, for example President Hu Jintao recently visited Argentina and established major trade with other nations instead of the US. In terms of promising hope: welcoming attitudes to other nations, establishing economic summits in Shanghai, Hosting the Olympics in 2008, hosting the world expo in 2010, dramatic raise in GDP, and encouraging foreigners to live in China....yes, I do think China might lead East Asia in terms of influence, region, and economics.
What give China an advantage over India in terms of the race is that China had an immediate head start.

I've visited both India and China over the last summer. For India, amazing authentic delicasies, amazing people, modern skyscrapers, bustling, but I really had an unconfortable stay there. What troubled me also is that I didn't see much foreigners living in India.
As I went into China, conditions were much better. Surprisingly, German, British, French, Australian, and Spanish already sought residence there. For those who think China is still communist, go there and see for yourself. The country has a Capitolist Market Economy that is Government Regulated.

India realize they cannot fully compete with other nations in Asia that already hit the top 10 charts. Instead they realize they need to grow on their own pace to prevent an immediate crash like what we saw in the race between the Asian Tigers. The same would also be associated with China while they made measures to cool down the white-hot economy from crashing.

Currently, India is still and continue to be outpaced by China's massive growth. But both of the these countries will have a strong, rich, and stable economy in the future.