Why have all Arab-Israeli wars ended in victory for the latter?
Panzercracker
Active member
And then people think that Americans are stupid.
84RFK
Active member
Or maybe the fact that they all had a different direction in which to turn in order to face Mecca...
Basicly agreeing upon one common goal (war against Israel) does not equal a structured and well functioning leadership with perfectly tuned communication lines.
And as the Arab states mentioned was barely able to keep peace among themselves it's pretty far fetched to expect them fighting like a united force against a third party.
A problem the Israelis obviously wasn't hampered by.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I remember hearing or reading about a dog fight between sub sonic Jordanian Hawker Hunters and Mach 1+ Israeli Mirages. Neither side could get on the six O'clock of the other, until a Jordanian either lost his nerve or was running out of fuel, made a break for home. The faster Mirage got on his tail and shot him down, the Jordanian “banged out” into a canyon wall. The fight was broken off.
lvcabbie
Active member
I think the Israelis know EXACTLY what they are facing! And from where!
What they DON'T KNOW is how the US will react in the event they are attacked by Arab nations. Their Prime Minister has lived in the US and knows what the people want but not what the current administration's responses would be.
I am certain they are deeply concerned about next year's elections. If, heaven forbid, the president is re-elected, I am certain they will send some of their new ICBMs in the direction of Iran. :box:
RayManKiller3
Active member
I have a hard time believing that. I am sure this administration will protect Israel if they are attacked. The only thing Israel should be worried about when it comes down to it is if U.S will be willing to do a pre-emptive strike against Iran.
At this current moment, I don't believe it would be best for any president and/or congress political well-being to do such a thing. If he do, then he will be painted as a war monger and lose support (as U.S citizens can be very naive).
I actually want Obama to win again, to save us from going backwards (which can potentially harm recovery). I actually plan on voting for him again next election.
Israel knows exactly whom and what they are up against. I'm sure they have agents in Iran and all the other Arab countries. Before anyone becomes a direct threat to the sovereignty of Israel,they will take whatever means they need to to protect themselves. Iran's leadership has already said that if they get nuclear,they will blow Israel off the map. Before they get close to doing this,Israel will take care of the problem. The US will not even have to be involved,except maybe to stop Israel from totally eliminating the problem.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Do they really know that? In a case of a nuclear exchange with Iran perhaps, Israel is in a situation similar as the US was during the Vietnam War, it worked quite well on a tactical level, but it was lacking the strategically level. Israel is very competent to defend itself, but against a threat from abroad who is using an asymmetrical approach, the war in 2006 against Hezbollah describes it quite well, even if it is difficult to evaluate the losses that Hezbollah suffered during this conflict.
ScarabVenom
Active member
For some reason, I feel like I'm the only one who believes Egypt came out with the most out of this war. I do also believe that Egypt's military situation at the end was just a tiny bit better than Israel's. I can argue a tie between those two but not an Israeli victory. 
84RFK
Active member
For some reason, I feel like I'm the only one who believes Egypt came out with the most out of this war. I do also believe that Egypt's military situation at the end was just a tiny bit better than Israel's. I can argue a tie between those two but not an Israeli victory.
Well, I agree, and there's an Egyptian here on the board who also share that point of view, but for the majority of IDF-supporters an all out Israeli victory sounds better. :wink:
ScarabVenom
Active member
That's what I'm saying! I've been hearing about IDF victorious and so forth. I encourage you to check my other thread. I've basically expressed my opinion in that matter with sources and proof not just barking.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
The Israelis and the Egyptians reached a mutually hurting stalemate. This opened up for negotiations between Israel and Egypt. Nicolae Ceasuscu played a role in this when he met Sadat and Begin, not at the same time though. He planted a thought, which Carter later exploited. The Yom Kippur/the October war were the Israelis Vietnam war. Israel has about five million people so their tolerance of casualties is lesser than others. They suffered a lot during this conflict. If we have a wither perspective of wars, their goals, and how to reach the goals, I would say Egypt won the Yom Kippur war, they achieved their strategically/political objective of the war. Israel survived as a state so they will claim they won, but they couldn't take a repeat. Israel had other interests as well, they had the problem with their northern border and wanted to do something about it, the problem still exist, different actors though. To sum my thoughts up here; I would say Egypt won, Israel reached the square one, and if anyone lost the war, that must be Syria
ScarabVenom
Active member
That's exactly what I say! Although, we have to point out that Egypt also put pressure on Israel using it's military which resulted in Israel withdrawing from the gap and the west bank of the canal. Also, I don't understand why Israel believed that Egypt wanted to destroy them or something. I mean, Sadat stated his goal as gaining back the Sinai and even if Sadat would attack Israel that would open hell on him politically as the US definitely won't see Israel getting destroyed and just keep standing. Actually, on that issue I wouldn't be surprised if the US would decide involving militarily. Also, hadn't Egypt waged war on 6th of October, Israel was going to attack Egypt on the 8th of October in an operation called Operation Black Belt which was going to be later re-named to Dayan Belt. Unfortunately, I do lack knowledge about the Syrian side of the conflict but for my surprise, they claim victory. For gaining back a city of Kneitra or something that to this date is still destroyed and the Syrian government keeps saying that this city will never be re-built until Israel gives back the entire Golan Heights. Also an interesting thing about Syria is that they started calling Sadat a traitor after the war, which I believe is non-sense!!!
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
There was a miscommunication between Egypt and Syria during the war. When the Syrian forces created a breakthrough in the Southern part of the Golan and the Israeli heartland was open for them if they had continued and secured the strategic important river crossings over the river Jordan, when Egypt heard about this, they thought it was safe to advance and they left their air defense umbrella, that was a mistake and it even open up the gap between the two armies in Sinai. There are speculations about why the Syrians stopped, can be they advanced as far as their logistical tail allowed them, they feared a trap in front of them. When they stopped, the Israelis got the time to reinforce the remaining troops at the Golan and they went on a counter offensive. There is another factor which contributed to the outcome of the war, how the two existing super powers at that time reacted. The Soviet Union and the US were closing in to intervene in the conflict. Israel and its neighbors were not worth the world war three
ScarabVenom
Active member
Kind of. I mean, the Egyptian advance has 2 explanations. Some say something about the Syrian president Assad calling Sadat in order to relieve some of the pressure. But, according to Field Marshall/ El-Gamasy the Egyptian advance was to control the passes which have strategic and political importance and if Egypt had the passes, they would have had a better position during the negotiations. Also we have to know that all Sadat's generals opposed his decision about advancing forward, but he remained stubborn because he wanted the passes. So, I tend to believe that Sadat advanced forward to gain control over the passes to improve his position during the negotiations. The thing between Egypt and Syria is basically like this....Israel took my Sinai and your Golan so, "enemy of my enemy is my friend." we both unite and go to war against our common enemy. Your objective, free your Golan and my objective is to free my Sinai. That was basically it. So, Egypt is not to blame for Syria's situation. I know about the situation between the Soviet and the US. Sadat asked a joint Soviet-American involvement to push Israel back to the 22nd of October lines. Then the Soviets sent a message to the US with a "hard language" saying that if America doesn't involve, Soviets will go by their own. America got pissed off then they switch to DefCon III and the Russians armed their nukes.
Interesting input from everyone, I must admit.
I am a simple man with simplistic views- if this was asked to me. This is what I will tell them.
The Arabs can't get thier sh!it together. When I refer to Arabs, I mean the Syrians, the Jordanians , Eygptians (I know they are different...). All these people have these mentality of "I-want-to-be-leader". They cannot coordinate and cooperate. Yes it happened on the initial stage but it soon changes as the battle progresses. This is very evident especially in the '73 war.
I know the Arabs will say tHAT America backs Israel, but did the USSR did the same for them, too? My other question is the motivation issue with the warring factions- the Israel were fighting for their survival, what was the Arabs fighting for?
I am a simple man with simplistic views- if this was asked to me. This is what I will tell them.
The Arabs can't get thier sh!it together. When I refer to Arabs, I mean the Syrians, the Jordanians , Eygptians (I know they are different...). All these people have these mentality of "I-want-to-be-leader". They cannot coordinate and cooperate. Yes it happened on the initial stage but it soon changes as the battle progresses. This is very evident especially in the '73 war.
I know the Arabs will say tHAT America backs Israel, but did the USSR did the same for them, too? My other question is the motivation issue with the warring factions- the Israel were fighting for their survival, what was the Arabs fighting for?
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Yes, the Soviet Union supported the some of the states hostile toward Israel, the Soviets abandon Egypt during and after the Yom Kippur war, of practical reasons, if the war escalated, the Soviet Union would have problems to support Egypt when the supplies and other essential transportations were forced to pass by two Nato countries (Bosporus). The Soviet and later the Russians have always supported Syria. The Syrians and the Egyptians fought well during the war, they were not so motivated as the Israelis.
ScarabVenom
Active member
Yes, the USSR backed the Arabs during the 73 war. But, the majority of supplies had to go to Syria. Also most of the Arab countries that ended up sending troops had it sent to Syria. When it comes to the motivation issue, I'll tell u. It all started in 1967, Israel launched a pre-emptive strike at Arab armies who were in disarray and poorly-trained. This war ended up with a decisive victory for Israel and then, Israel occupied the Sinai Peninsula from Egypt, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank from Jordan and the Golan Heights from Syria that's besides the major humiliation felt by the Arabs and particularly Egypt. Arab countries were very very very humiliated by such defeat. So, 1973 war was made to get back the stolen Arab land and during this war, I believe Israelis thought that this war was to destroy their country or something, but it's not true. This war was only to get back occupied lands. Only Egypt got their land back; the Sinai Peninsula. The Golan Heights to this date are occupied by Israel same for the West Bank. When it comes to Gaza, I don't know.
Because Gaza these days is a part of the Palestinian/Israeli conflict which I don't know too much about. Maybe others can help u.