Why have all Arab-Israeli wars ended in victory for the latter?
The Palestinians deserve their own country and so do the Jews. Surely you must agree with that. Why can you not put behind you what probably happened before you were born and please stop being so biased. Let us all live in peace and put an end to all these ridiculous religous wars.
senojekips
Active member
Where exactly do you get the idea that for some reason, the Jews deserve a country of their own? They are no more than a religious group, what would you say if the Methodists of the world suddenly decided that they wanted to partition off a "homeland" in England because that is where theiir religion started.
More to the point, why should the Jews get Palestine of all places, why not partition off a part of one of the UN countries who supported this gracious gift of someone else's land.? Yeah,... I know what sort of answer we would get to that suggestion,... no, it's easier to give away someone else's land isn't it?
Even if the Jews did "deserve" a homeland, it most likely should have been in Europe, after all that is where their majority were living, perhaps Germany as part of war reparations?
More to the point, why should the Jews get Palestine of all places, why not partition off a part of one of the UN countries who supported this gracious gift of someone else's land.? Yeah,... I know what sort of answer we would get to that suggestion,... no, it's easier to give away someone else's land isn't it?
Even if the Jews did "deserve" a homeland, it most likely should have been in Europe, after all that is where their majority were living, perhaps Germany as part of war reparations?
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r.fox
Active member
when you think about the arab-isreali wars it is generaly the isrealis who strike first. im not pro arab or anything but sometimes the arabs didnt really do anything wrong. how many times did the isrealis attack civilians anyway?:drunkb: what were they drinking?:?:
sometimes the locals of the villages they conqered were terrified to come out becouse they had heard of isreali war crimes and more often then not, men of fighting age were shot on the spot or taken prisioners even though they were civilians
sometimes the locals of the villages they conqered were terrified to come out becouse they had heard of isreali war crimes and more often then not, men of fighting age were shot on the spot or taken prisioners even though they were civilians
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Ok here is a small problem for you to think about, how do you avoid killing civilians when the people shooting at you are doing so from built up areas crammed full of civilians?
I am not going to defend Israel but it is a dilemma for any occupying force and the only real counter argument says that Israel can't defend itself which is a somewhat unrealistic stance.
As for the rest I will back Senojekips argument.
I am not going to defend Israel but it is a dilemma for any occupying force and the only real counter argument says that Israel can't defend itself which is a somewhat unrealistic stance.
As for the rest I will back Senojekips argument.
lvcabbie
Active member
And we will, of course, not once mention dead Israeli children from rockets attacking from Gaza?
:sarc:
senojekips
Active member
OK,... give me some ballpark figures for Israeli women and children killed by Palestinian rockets since 2000, which incidentally are hardly more than fireworks, (Here's a hint: 22) and the number of Palestinian women and children killed by Israeli missiles. Well, I haveny got my calculator here so I'll just quote the figures from the last Gaza attack (somewhere between 1,166 and 1,417)
Then let's take into account that the Palestinians are attempting to repel an occupying force whereas the israelis are the occupiers.
I'll say it again (for the umteenth time). We'll put you in the Palestinian position. What would you do if Mexico was to give all the most fertile and economically viable parts of the USA to the starving Somalians and then back them with ongoing financial and military aid to murder those US citizens that resisted?
You want pictures of atrocities? I bet i can find ten for every one that you can.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
But I think you are both missing the problem, the fact that you can both fill a forum with atrocities committed by either side does not make one more right than the other it just makes them both equally as bad.
I am prepared to accept that the Palestinians can not achieve their aims without bloodshed lets face it Israel is not going to suddenly disappear off the map because Palestinians are sending them flowers instead of rockets but at the same time I can understand Israel's desire to defend itself even if it is in the wrong, however I will accept that Israel in my opinion has gone beyond self defence and opted for brutal oppression in many instances.
I am prepared to accept that the Palestinians can not achieve their aims without bloodshed lets face it Israel is not going to suddenly disappear off the map because Palestinians are sending them flowers instead of rockets but at the same time I can understand Israel's desire to defend itself even if it is in the wrong, however I will accept that Israel in my opinion has gone beyond self defence and opted for brutal oppression in many instances.
senojekips
Active member
I was merely countering the blatant attempt to gain sympathy for a murderous oppressor. And as pointed out the Israelis have no cause for complaint.
They provoke people until they get a reaction, and then they over react, time and time again. Then they have the unmitigated gall to complain.
84RFK
Active member
Agree, as two wrongs doesn't make one right, and since both parts are doing it wrong, neither one of them is right.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again, we can be thankfull that the radical ideologies behind terrorist actions today are so obsessed with meaningless bloodshed, and not by achieving a goal.
And the day some Palestinian leader start reading Ghandi, the state of Israel as we know it today is in serious trouble.
The growt of compromise just can't be fertilized with blood.
r.fox
Active member
i have to agree with you there. anyway my info is probably not correct anyway...
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Mate if people worried about posting inaccurate information half the political discussions here would have never started, my suggestion would be to try and verify the info you have through major media outlets and if it checks out post away.
84RFK
Active member
But remember to check with different media outlets, as they all have a different stance and serve different opinions.
When you see reports from Fox News and compare them to Reuters or Al Jazeera you start wondering if they are reporting from the same planet.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Agreed I tend to use the media as confirmation that an event took place as it is pointless trying to validate a view given that they all have a different stance on the issue.
That being said if the only corroboration I find is through blogs I generally disregard it as I tend to find most blogs have just taken some rumour and spun it to what ever extreme view the writer has.
r.fox
Active member
true. you have me there
Ibrahim Hamdy
New Member
Who said that Israel win finally see the history well and you will see that Israel defeated the Egyptian army in 1973 The success of Israel, then make the part of America's part, and NATO recently .. Well in order to see the size of Israel, let alone fighting a war .. Called to tell you that the Great State of Israel will not take just one day be dust