Why didn't the Nazis Have "Special Forces"

A

AussieNick

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I've been reading up on the topic of special forces operations, and it seems to me that the Nazis never used "special forces" as we know them now. The SS were not commandos as such, and did not operate clandestinly, or teach/work with guerilla soldiers.

It is interesting that the British/French/Australian/Americans all had commandos, the SAS, OSS, SOE etc etc etc, and they cultivated guerilla warfare to aid their cause, but the Nazis didn't use this effective weapon.
We know that the Brits developed commandos because they knew they couldn't face the German army toe to toe in regular combat alone. They needed an edge. Why didn't the Nazis, when they had seen how effective they were.

Not to say the Nazis didn't have daring, commando style raids, but they were soldiers from regular units, trained for the job, then returned to their units once the job was done.

Anybody have any thoughts on the issue of special forces and why the Nazis never used the system.
 
iv just finished reading a book on the SAS and sf units and operations and there was a rather spectacular entry where Otto Skorzeny lead a mixture of Waffen SS and parachute troops on an incursion to free Musolini from Allied Forces, in the mountains north of Rome.
its is an awesome story, the odds were strongly against them but, with the element of suprise they succeded. aparently Otto was a firm believer in SF units and thier capabilities
 
Locke said:
iv just finished reading a book on the SAS and sf units and operations and there was a rather spectacular entry where Otto Skorzeny lead a mixture of Waffen SS and parachute troops on an incursion to free Musolini from Allied Forces, in the mountains north of Rome.
its is an awesome story, the odds were strongly against them but, with the element of suprise they succeded. aparently Otto was a firm believer in SF units and thier capabilities
Click to expand...

Yes, Otto Skorzeny was the Chief of Germany's Special Troops and a brilliant, daring commando leader. His mission to rescue Mussolini from Gran Sasso made him famous the world over, as documented in the book Commando Extraordinary by Charles Foley. A great read if you can get your hands on a copy.
 
I'm not sure if the nazis had SOFs as such, but they did have units that were special operations capable, like their paratroopers
 
The Nazi's mostly had elite units rather then dedicated Special Forces units to my opinion. There paratroopers or "fallschirmjaeger" units being one of them. The SS "Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler" is also one of them. These where personal bodyguards of Hitler and guarded his little paradise on top of the Obersalzberg, known as The Berghof.
The infamous unit known as kampfgruppe Peiper (which saw action during the Ardenne offensive in '44 together with Skorenzy), named after its commander Joachim Peiper could be considered "special." And ofcourse some "Schwere" SS Panzer regiments.

Question remains ofcourse if the germans considered certain units elite because of there outstanding fighting capabilities or because the troops that made up the unit where considered elite because they where "true" Arians or possibly a combination of both?
 
Hmmm, interesting. I've been reading "Shadow Warriors: with General Carl Stiner (Ret)" By Tom Clancy, 2002 published by Sidgewick & Jackson (ISBN 0-283-07283-0). He claims that they had no forces like the OSS or SOE. e.g. Dropped behind enemy lines to be "disruptive" as such.

He also claims that the soldiers in the units that performed daring raids, the rescue of Musollini etc were just soldiers from regular units, taken out and trained for the job, then sent back to their old regular units once the job was done.

No doubt the Nazis had excellent soldiers and regiments who could be considered "special or specialist" but maybe I used the wrong term. Could I say "covert" perhaps.[/list]
 
The Brandenburg commando did the same sort of stuff to disrupt behind enemy lines. This falls under the realm of "covert".

"The 800th Battalion was formed on the orders of Canaris to undertake special missions and comprised carefully selected volunteers who were highly trained in commando operations, communications, explosives, sabotage, and demolitions, and other black arts."

"In addition to the usual assortment of bridge seizings, sabotage operations, covert mission behind Soviet lines, and infiltrations staged in Soviet uniforms,..."

"Meanwhile, other Brandenburger teams were active in Afghanistan carrying out intelligence-gathering activities and sabotage against British roads and installations across the border in India."

http://stonebooks.com/archives/980127.shtml

"Their use of foreign uniforms and other tactics were clear violations of the rules of war, but the influence of the Brandenburg Division on later special operations around the world is obvious."

http://www.servicepub.com/ww2_2.html
 
Well as you can see the Nazi's regular forces did extremely well, and against at least 3 other large countries. Their regular forces were just as good as say some special forces.

Weird though, during both World Wars, the allies started winning only after the United States joined the war.
 
He also claims that the soldiers in the units that performed daring raids, the rescue of Musollini etc were just soldiers from regular units, taken out and trained for the job, then sent back to their old regular units once the job was done
Click to expand...
Well... Most of the SF units of the second World War were as they are today... Regular soldiers who met the requirements for Commando training, as in the First Special Service Force (a joint Canadian/American SF group known as the Devils Brigade.) SF were very new to the military at the time and a lot of Conventional Generals thought that they were unnessesary... In the old days many of these commando operations were against all odds so there were huge casualty rates... At the end of a certain campaign, there might not be many men left so as in the 1st special service force, they were disbanded and sent back to their original units. I think many of the units were disbanded because Generals who had wrongfully doubted the idea tried to save face.
The Germans considered that the SS were an Elite fighting force, there were also different units within the SS who were more specialized, I am not to familiar with the different units, but I know that the Gross Deutchland Division a conventionally Elite unit regarded the SS as what we would now think of as Special Forces.
 
Pete031 said:
The Germans considered that the SS were an Elite fighting force, there were also different units within the SS who were more specialized, I am not to familiar with the different units, but I know that the Gross Deutchland Division a conventionally Elite unit regarded the SS as what we would now think of as Special Forces.
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Grossdeutschland Division was in itself an elite unit, so I doubt it would consider an SS elite unit as Special Forces. In fact, until they proved their worth on the Eastern Front, I imagine that the elite Heer units regarded the Waffen SS as anything but. I could be wrong though and if you have any sources then I'll take a look.
 
Yeah I said that the Gross Deutshland was elite, but in a more conventional way... If you read the Book "The Forgotten Soldier" it explains it a lot....the Book is By Guy Sajer an Alsatian drafted in the the German army... he then volunteers for the Gross Deutshland later on in the war... He writes very humbly about himself and when he mentions the SS he does so in awe, I tend to believe him... But you can see for yourself... The book is really worth reading
 
Locke said:
iv just finished reading a book on the SAS and sf units and operations and there was a rather spectacular entry where Otto Skorzeny lead a mixture of Waffen SS and parachute troops on an incursion to free Musolini from Allied Forces, in the mountains north of Rome.
its is an awesome story, the odds were strongly against them but, with the element of suprise they succeded. aparently Otto was a firm believer in SF units and thier capabilities
Click to expand...

I have read many books about Skorzeny, too bad he was on the German's side, all the things we could have done with a man like that leading an SAS or Rangers Unit.
 
Pete031 said:
Yeah I said that the Gross Deutshland was elite, but in a more conventional way... If you read the Book "The Forgotten Soldier" it explains it a lot....the Book is By Guy Sajer an Alsatian drafted in the the German army... he then volunteers for the Gross Deutshland later on in the war... He writes very humbly about himself and when he mentions the SS he does so in awe, I tend to believe him... But you can see for yourself... The book is really worth reading
Click to expand...

Interesting. I'll see if I can find a copy.
 
I don't know if iits been said yet but I read that the Germans had Paratroopers as early as spring 1940.Also they had an elite partisan force known as werwolf partisans.
 
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