Why can't Taiwanese people accept their Chinese heritage? - Page 7




 
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Boots
 
April 6th, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
As I posted earlier, I have said that the terminology or the comparison is bizaare. I am very well aware what is happening here.
April 6th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
lol, ok i wont throw running dog or paper tiger at those countries, or dont use animal terms at all,


" 8) i guess ill use my lil red book's phases another day 8) "


anyway, in my mind no doubt taiwan is a part of china, however you want to comment, taiwan is always a part of china

and im not talking about governmental or politidcal terms here, so do you agree, then, that taiwan is a part of china?
April 6th, 2005  
TBA_PAKI
 
No country has the right to enforce its doctrine on others by saying that what was in the past should be implemented today.

Taiwanese dispute should only be settled with diplomatic terms and if locals there are eager to join China then it should be annexed (and US back-off) but if not then using means of force to implement authority is not good.

Even Saddam claimed after conquering Kuwait that it is was the part of Iraqi territory during WWII era and it should be annexed but what happened that Kuwaities resisted and world gathered to punish Iraq for its decision.

Also, US position in Taiwan is right (if Taiwanese don't want to join China) but if they do then (Chinese position is justified).
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Boots
April 6th, 2005  
A Can of Man
 
 
Urbanboy, how is my statement racist?
If it was racism then I should also have the same attitude towards the Taiwanese and Koreans of Chinese descent (oh wait that's me). If you really need to find a racist you might as well look yourself in the mirror because there is no reason any of the neighboring countries should accept Chinese power.
April 6th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanboy
lol, ok i wont throw running dog or paper tiger at those countries, or dont use animal terms at all,

" 8) i guess ill use my lil red book's phases another day 8) "
It is appreciated, and bear in mind that you're keeping a very civil and decent tone in this discussion. Its just something that I thought I'd give you to consider: The fact that China likes to belittle many of their neighbors for being closer to the USA than to China. I would like to suggest to you that friendly relationships with non-Asian nations does not constitute a betrayal nor treason nor any crime at all. I don't know if you can truly see what I mean though. The Qing Dynasty of 1800 AD -1900 AD had many of the same attitudes towards the West and it only lead to their downfall.


Quote:
anyway, in my mind no doubt taiwan is a part of china, however you want to comment, taiwan is always a part of china

and im not talking about governmental or politidcal terms here, so do you agree, then, that taiwan is a part of china?
As I've said, I've yet to see someone effectively prove to me that Taiwan is a part of the Peoples Republic of China. I've yet to see proof that Taiwan does not have the right to decide the matter for itself. I'm not going to offer a prediction as to what that decision might be. That is not the point.

In the analogy of Ms. Taiwan and her island, she was used and handed from one master to another, but never actually gave any consent to any of them. She was just too weak to stop them. That she was owned by those varying masters is not in dispute. But at the beginning she owned herself and her island. Obviously, the majority of the people left on the island in that analogy were sired by Chinese. Eight out of nine of her children were. That constitutes a majority of them and that is a substantial tie to China. But who's right is it to decide who owns her and her children? In real life situations, there is law and order and no civilized system of laws is going to count the fact that because someone owned someone as a slave, that they have a right to take them back by force.

Additionally, it was mentioned that Japan waged an "illegal war of agression" against China in the Sino-Japanese War, which handed control of Taiwan over to the Japanese. But if Japan's war against China in the Sino-Japanese War was in any way illegal, then we must conclude that "taking whatever you want by force" and "unprovoked aggression" are wrong and illegal too. So by the same standard, was China's conquest and annexation Taiwan "legal" to begin with? Was it legal to pass her around like a spoil of war?

The thing about Taiwan's situation that is unique is that nobody actually controls Taiwan. Taiwan controls Taiwan. They have their own system and their own everything. They function no differently than any Independent Nation on the planet, yet nothing "official" has ever been made of it. The do share a common language and ancestry with China, but language and ancestry do not always draw the borders on the map anywhere else in the world, so what makes China special in this regard?

If Hainan Island declared its independence then that would be another matter entirely. The are unquestionably under the control and part of the People's Republic of China. That island declaring independence would constitute an insurrection and rebellion against the established government. But none of that applies to Taiwan. Only one thing: They still officially recognize themselves as part of China (under the one land, two systems idealogy.) So if they declare Independence, then which government did they rebel against and which government would need to put down that insurrection and rebellion?
April 6th, 2005  
Mikey
 
I think that China should leave Taiwan alone simply because they can kiss any and all future economic growth goodbye with an invasion. Look at some point you got to put your pocket before your pride, and that is the only reason China wants to invade Taiwan. What else will China gain if they do invade. Taiwan has no real natural resources. The business relationships between taiwan and China, which benefits both countires would collapse. Other foreign business in China will pull out due to the war's instability. American and the UN will put economic sanctions on China. This plus the expense of the invasion would make China's economic boom go bust. This will most likely cause revolt and rebellion within China. Not to mention the loss of face if Taiwan was able to repel a chinese invasion. I think it is all sabre rattling, the Chinese are too smart to invade. Everything to lose and nothing to gain.
April 6th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
Quote:
I think it is all sabre rattling, the Chinese are too smart to invade. Everything to lose and nothing to gain.

oh no, you foiled our plans



but you know what, this new anti-session law basically lays down a new rule of the game, and that is if taiwan becomes independent, then war will occur


this is all taiwan's decision, like do they wanted to be reclaimed with joyce or independency with force
April 6th, 2005  
Zyca
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanboy
this is all taiwan's decision, like do they wanted to be reclaimed with joyce or independency with force
China lays down the rules and imposes it on Taiwan (and now calling it Taiwan's decision). The only thing China demonstrated consistently is the use (or abuse) of force. There is a reason why Taiwanese fear and refuse to be governed by Chinese.
April 6th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanboy
but you know what, this new anti-session law basically lays down a new rule of the game, and that is if taiwan becomes independent, then war will occur
It really nothing more and nothing less than China putting in writing the policy that they've been following all along.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
Look at some point you got to put your pocket before your pride, and that is the only reason China wants to invade Taiwan.
Well, here's the problem with that. In East Asia, shame and honor and the associated pride coming from that are huge. Beyond huge. The possibility of shame and losing face will virtually always trump any and all rational thought. This is why you have an extremely long list of territories that are claimed by two nations, but neither nation will back down and both nations seem more than happy to risk all manner of war, death and destruction over them.

Some say this is a good attribute. In this case, its the number one reason that Southeast Asia constantly stands on the brink of catastrophic war.
April 7th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
lol, i thought it was east asia we were talking about here, hey dont leave out the koreans and japanese as well


the situation with taiwan is that it is currently ruled by a pro-independency government, something that does jeopardize the relations


id rather have good ol kmt rule taiwan