Where is the wikileak-thread? - Page 4




 
--
Boots
 
December 14th, 2010  
George
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieMSG
If everything is so bad here in America, why do a lot of people emigrate here?
Same could be said about South Africa. People from all over Africa fled to South Africa prefering Apartied to thier own cesspool dictatorship.
December 14th, 2010  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieMSG
If everything is so bad here in America, why do a lot of people emigrate here? Why do we have such a problem with illeagal immigration? I believe that the standards of living are better here than in their home countries. America is still the land of opportunity. America is by no means perfect but we still represent a lot of ideals that people want to emulate.
Umm before you get carried away most "developed" countries have a problem with "illegal" immigration be it Hispanics, East Europeans, Asians or Pacific Islanders and they will go anywhere not just to the USA.


Quote:
It is true I was born here, but America has provided me with many opportunities, as long as I am willing to work hard.
The extremists attacked our way of life because they resent us. When we defend our interests we are called empire builders, racists and a bunch of other things. Just tired of the double standards.
Again same thing applies to all "developed" countries, in fact I would suggest that they have become developed for exactly that reason, they worked hard.

You know it is precisely the attitude that "every one wants to be us, and they all resent us" that gets you attacked, if you recall much of the world waved goodbye about the time good ole George W came up with the "if you are not with us you are against us" statement.

If you travel the world you will discover that for the most part no body mentions the USA just like while I was in the USA; New Zealand wasn't on the tip of peoples tongues and I think I know why... People the world over have far better things to occupy themselves with than you or me, they have their own daily problems to deal with.

In short "get over yourselves" the rest of the world certainly has.

Quote:
While it is important for democracy to have transparency, our enemies will continue to use that against us. Wikileaks, in theory, is a watchdog group. Assange seems to be set on releasing information just because he can, without regard for the consequences. Responsible people would have considered the consequences of their actions. Assange does not care and blasts everything out to everyone and let the chips fall where they may.
Umm what is your point, releasing information is what these groups do.
December 14th, 2010  
HokieMSG
 
 
Yes releasing information is what these groups do. However, I fell that Assange wants to consider himself a journalist (Conveniently hiding behind our 1st Ammendment) but what he has done is dangerous as well as irresponsible. I fear that in his rush to bash the US government he failed to adequately consider the consequences of his actions. He has placed the lives of US and coalition soldiers at risk, he has placed the lives of the Iraqi and Afghani people who are helping us at risk as well. Responsible journalists would have vetted the information and at least redacted names, tribes, towns that type of thing in order to prevent reprisals against them.
--
Boots
December 14th, 2010  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieMSG
I find it interesting that he is having legal troubles with Sweden, not the USA. I stand by my statement that he is Anti American and will do anything he thinks will undermine the USA.
But of course, just as anyone who criticises Israel, regardless of the fact that they are correct is an "Anti Semite", like many of the persons Assange is uncovering , you seem determined to divert the blame from your own country or citizens. Assange is the owner of a website publishing leaked documents, no different to any other form of media be it newspaper, or TV or whatever, and you still seem to neglect the fact that most, if not all of the information was stolen by a US citizen.

Quote:
If we are being lied to then the media is certainly aiding and abetting. I think that it is good that we have taken the fight to the insurgents. We are combating them on their turf and the turf of their supporters. Better there than here.
Once again you won't look at the root cause but attribute the blame to others. The Media were reporting what they are told, the actual lies are being diseminated by the Government and their agencies.

Quote:
They were never released because their countries wouldn't take them back. Admit it, these guys were living better in US prison than they would at home. If you have a source proving that the insurgents were tortured please provide it. The US Army currently uses the Human Intelligence Collector Operations FM 2-22.3. This was last updated in 2006 and President Obama has ordered a review. Still pending.
Their countries were not ever consulted when they were removed, how come they are consulted about their return? In fact, in most cases their respective countries were not even aware that they had ever been removed from that country.
As for torture I would go so far as to say that you are lying (very poorly). How can you even pose such a question after all of the fuss and admissions of waterboarding, in the media, not to mention such gems as the totally innocent Cab driver who was beaten to death by US military personel whilst just being "softened up" prior to an "intrerogation session". Read http://www.truth-out.org/article/the...l-willie-brand
CIA Torture in Iraq
And in spite of all of this evidence (all admitted to) you seem to indicate that your country was not involved in torture,... I would have to say that you are either certifiably delusional, or an outright liar, certainly proving to me that you are a jingoistic nationalist with little or no grasp of truth whatsoever regarding this matter.

Quote:
Never brought morality into it. You did.
The whole argument is based on morality, and you well know it, that is the whole point of Wikileaks

Quote:
OK I'll adress that now. It seems that Manning was not only a deeply troubled individual, but he was also desperate for attention. This is his way to get his 15 minutes. At the conclusion of his military trial, if he is found guilty, he should be sentenced to the maximum punishment. If it was discovered that the information he released led to the death or deaths of people who were helping us, then he should be tried for accessory to murder.
That does not hold water. If, as you allege, Manning was such a deeply troubled individual, why was he left in such a sensitive job? I would say that this is no more than another typical attempted cover up to discredit him.

Quote:
You say I am a self centered jingoist. Name calling should be left on the playground. I admit to being patriotic, nothing more.
Take a look at some of the rubbish you have presented here. e.g. "US not torturing insurgents" I don't have to demonstrate that you are a jingoist, you are doing a far better job than I ever could, it's not "name calling", merely an honest statement of fact.
December 14th, 2010  
George
 
City Council of Berkely, Ca to vote tonight on declaring the actual leaker a Hero.
December 15th, 2010  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieMSG
Yes releasing information is what these groups do. However, I fell that Assange wants to consider himself a journalist (Conveniently hiding behind our 1st Ammendment) but what he has done is dangerous as well as irresponsible. I fear that in his rush to bash the US government he failed to adequately consider the consequences of his actions. He has placed the lives of US and coalition soldiers at risk, he has placed the lives of the Iraqi and Afghani people who are helping us at risk as well. Responsible journalists would have vetted the information and at least redacted names, tribes, towns that type of thing in order to prevent reprisals against them.
I disagree to date there is no evidence that any information released has lead to reprisal actions, the only reason this issue has been blown out of all proportion is that a few governments have been shown to be lying on a grand scale and rather than resolving to clean themselves up they have chosen to shoot the reporter while almost ignoring how he got the information.

When this thing first blew up my arguments were very much the same as yours but the longer it has gone on and the more I have looked into it for myself the more I am beginning to think that I agree with him.

I also find the "rape" allegations a little odd given that they were dismissed back in August...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_690009.html
December 15th, 2010  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieMSG
If everything is so bad here in America, why do a lot of people emigrate here? Why do we have such a problem with illeagal immigration?
Lots of countries have that problem, and it is not the issue here. It is the arrogant foreign policy that left the US without many friends. In many places, here in Europe and all over, people haven't forgotten the: you are with us or against us.
Assange merely put the finger on the sore spot, that is all.
December 15th, 2010  
Chukpike
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
It is the arrogant foreign policy that left the US without many friends. In many places, here in Europe and all over, people haven't forgotten the: you are with us or against us.
Assange merely put the finger on the sore spot, that is all.
Europe and other countries shift as the wind blows. You suggest that the US is with out friends because of: "you are with us or against us". That is fine, it is also many years in the past. Since then, as I recall Europeans were tripping all over themselves when President Obama was elected, even gave him the Nobel Peace Prize.

So what is the current flavor of the month?

The US can probably do with out the "what have you done for us lately" crowd. Fair weather friends are a dime a dozen.

I sincerely doubt that the US has anything to do with Julian Assange's problems. That is probably some unhappy European governments. Let's face it Assange may not be a choirboy, but Wikileaks will continue to operate, with or with out him.

When everyone gets finished with whining about the mean, nasty US oops... that was Last President, now it is Nobel Peace loving not so good with secrets US.

Getting back to the topic, why aren't we talking about the leaks more? Per Ted, "Frankly, I am quite surprised that the whole wikileak-affair is about as lively as Grace Jones on this forum."

I think the reason is they are turning out to be pretty boring. Mostly just straight analyzes with only some colorful metaphors. Most of the stuff bears out the fact that most governments are saying the same thing behind closed doors, but more diplomatically in public. In other words we have not gotten any really juicy dirt or gossip yet. That translates to boring.
December 15th, 2010  
MontyB
 
 
You mean finished whining in the way you guys are about Wikileaks, Assange and "the world is against/hates/is jealous of us" BS we have to hear every time you lot don't get what you like?

He is a thought, if this was Iran, Russia or any other country you would be spouting on about how this would never happen in the USA because of all your perceived freedoms and how corrupt these "commie/Islamofacist" countries are but the second it happens to you its the greatest crime on earth.

Oh and WTF... "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Voltaire(1694 - 1778)... This is your signature, I think you need to look up irony...

Lets up date it, "I disapprove of what you say, but as long as it makes someone else look bad and not me I will defend to the death your right to say it." Chukpike(2010)
December 15th, 2010  
A Can of Man
 
 
Even China has an illegal immigration problem.
 


Similar Topics
A thread question
Thread Merge Request Thread
Was my previous "Woohoo" thread deleted?
The Only Official Nacchi Thread