Where to Palestine?

[Nasir56]

Its the first time for me to ask this question to western people,and i love to hear your answers.
Do Palastine have the right to build its own state and army like Israel?
If,yes tell me why.
If,no tell me why.
My opinion,Yes we have the right to have a state and strong army.
Why i choose yes:The people of Palastine lived here for thousands years even before Israel exist(no offence,its history)Alot of ages and Empires came throught this land.The heart of all religions Jerusalem or El-Quodes.
Thank you.

 

[benaakatz]

yes you have the right to a state as long as you recognize us jews have lived here for thousands of years as well and have a right to our own as well.

and yes, when we god willing sign a peace treaty you have a right to an army as long as you don't turn your guns and try to kill the jews

we both have lived here for a long time, we both have ties to the land, so lets stop fighting and build up the region.

 

[Zastava-Arms]

Sure, as long as you guys dont kill each other.

 

[Nasir56]

yes you have the right to a state as long as you recognize us jews have lived here for thousands of years as well and have a right to our own as well.

and yes, when we god willing sign a peace treaty you have a right to an army as long as you don't turn your guns and try to kill the jews

we both have lived here for a long time, we both have ties to the land, so lets stop fighting and build up the region.

Yes I said before all religion lived here Muslims,Christians and Jews.Jerusalem is the source of all religion.
Muhammed our prophet taught us to respect all religions because Moses and Jesus are his brothers.
1400 years since Muslims lived in Jerusalem with the Christians,no muslim burned or destroyed a church.
May be the new generation will have the ability to change and stop acentury of blood.

 

[MontyB]

Its the first time for me to ask this question to western people,and i love to hear your answers.
Do Palastine have the right to build its own state and army like Israel?
If,yes tell me why.
If,no tell me why.
My opinion,Yes we have the right to have a state and strong army.
Why i choose yes:The people of Palastine lived here for thousands years even before Israel exist(no offence,its history)Alot of ages and Empires came throught this land.The heart of all religions Jerusalem or El-Quodes.
Thank you.

I will go with a reserved yes.
My answer is reserved because I do not see how a viable state can be formed given the size of the area in question, I have trouble believing that a collection of parcels of land will ever form a strong stable nation and it would be a huge mistake to accept such a deal.

However if a decent piece of territory can be arranged then I am all for a Palestinian state complete with what ever sized military you choose to build.

 

[senojekips]

yes you have the right to a state as long as you recognize us jews have lived here for thousands of years as well and have a right to our own as well.

BS! the truth is that the Jews were a minority and greatest part of the present Jewish population of Palestine came from Europe in the last half of the last century.

The estimated Jewish popiulation of Palestine in 1900 was only 78,000 (12% of the population) in 2005 it was 5,593,000 (76% of the population) Yo have no historical right to call this your country. Try Googling before you put up these misrepresentations of the truth all of this has been previously shown on this forum in other threads.

 

[captiva303]

but a fact of history is as soon as a population has been established for longer than 2 generations there is now way to dislodge them short of genocide...
so you now have to have a two state solution both with equal rights and from there on they are on an equal playing field and anyway life was never meant to be fair...

 

[senojekips]

but a fact of history is as soon as a population has been established for longer than 2 generations there is now way to dislodge them short of genocide...

And that's exactly what's happening,.... the Palestinians are being subjected to genocide in penny lots.

Firstly they are robbed, if they resist they have their property bulldozed so they have to move or they are terrorised by settlersbacked by the Army and shot. I have already posted enough video clips of this, much of it backed by B'Tselem the Jewish Human Rights Organisation.

 

[captiva303]

i am not condoning what the doing but it isn't genocide (there is no systimatic eradication of an ethnic group or race)... i was just stating that both groups aren't going anywhere...

 

[A Can of Man]

Cordoning off and driving out and having a few deaths in between is not a good thing but is still a long way off from being genocide.
Cordoning off and then killing everyone inside the fence would constitute genocide.

 

[Nasir56]

BS! the truth is that the Jews were a minority and greatest part of the present Jewish population of Palestine came from Europe in the last half of the last century.

The estimated Jewish popiulation of Palestine in 1900 was only 78,000 (12% of the population) in 2005 it was 5,593,000 (76% of the population) Yo have no historical right to call this your country. Try Googling before you put up these misrepresentations of the truth all of this has been previously shown on this forum in other threads.

Thanks man,but do you think thats why we still in war with this war machine.
And plz give me the other thread link.

 

[senojekips]

i am not condoning what the doing but it isn't genocide (there is no systimatic eradication of an ethnic group or race)... i was just stating that both groups aren't going anywhere...

That is why I said it is being done in penny lots. There is no declared systematic eradication, but they are doing it by stealth, at first stealing their land, then beating, imprisoning, torturing and shooting those who resist. There is certainly a system in place to remove or kill those who resist.

And for those who who feel the palestinians should nor resist, read

Israel's reprisal policy, 1953-1956: the dynamics of military retaliation
By Zeʼev Derori

Ben-Gurion recognized the strong attachment of Palestinian Arabs to the land but hoped that this would be overcome in time. In a conversation about "the Arab problem" in 1956, Goldman wrote that Ben-Gurion stated: "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army

Thanks man,but do you think thats why we still in war with this war machine.
And plz give me the other thread link.

The reason for this on going conflict is simple. In 1948, part of the land known historically known as Palestine was just given away to the Jews by a group of persons who had no legal right to do so. This was done as a "knee jerk reaction by these countries to ease their own guilt for not having done more to prevent the Holocaust. The people who lived in that land and had owned it in many cases for centuries were justifiably upset and resisted the take over of their land.

The land was flooded by ex European Jews who simply just drove the owners of the land by occupying and defending large tracts. I has never stopped to this day where we still see "settlers" deliberately settling on Palestinian land and refusing to move, and their government refuses to remove them. They did make several half hearted attempts, but have since given up.

As for the previous posts etc., you will need to read the threads like:
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/why-dont-palestinians-have-state-t77345.html

There are several threads in the political system and some are quite long, but they have covered nearly all of this before, most points have been covered several times. It will take a long time to read all of these threads.

 

[Nasir56]

Thanks senojekips,I am glad to know that some people of western world know the truth and how we was the land owner.

 

[senojekips]

Thanks senojekips,I am glad to know that some people of western world know the truth and how we was the land owner.

Most of the world is aware of what is going on, it's just that they are too apathetic to say so. We all know that as soon a you say anything about Israel you will be branded as Anti Semitic, or a Jew Hater, in an attempt to stop you telling the truth, fortunately most people are waking up to this stupid defence and taking less and less notice of it. Especially seeing that the Palestinian Arab people are Semitic people too.

It's all too ridiculous for words, the question has been asked many times on here and no one will answer it:

Imagine if I moved into you house and moved you and your family to the bathroom and then 40 years later I offered to let you use part of the backyard would you accept that and be happy?

Nothing will ever be achieved until Israel admits that the land is not theirs and was given to them illegally.

 

[captiva303]

regardless of whether what was done was legal or not it happened so we will have to deal with the current circumstances rather than trying to restore the past...

 

[senojekips]

regardless of whether what was done was legal or not it happened so we will have to deal with the current circumstances rather than trying to restore the past...

I bet you'd say that if it were Australia too????

That's a pretty p!ss poor attitude. What's your answer to the question posed i my last post?

 

[captiva303]

it already happened in australia...

if some one did manage to to take over and live here for generations there is no way to make them to leave whether i liked it or not.

any way before the Jews came in 1948 to Palestine there was no concept of a Palestinian people or nation that was a European jurisdictional fiction...
so to restore what was the past is impossible.

 

[MontyB]

it already happened in australia...

if some one did manage to to take over and live here for generations there is no way to make them to leave whether i liked it or not.

any way before the Jews came in 1948 to Palestine there was no concept of a Palestinian people or nation that was a European jurisdictional fiction...
so to restore what was the past is impossible.

While I agree with this in principle I think it overlooks the fact that unlike the Aborigine or the Maori the Palestinians have not given up or reached an agreement with the Israeli's.

Just because the Muslim/Jewish/Christian occupants of the area chose not to call it Palestine in no way mitigates ownership any more than not mowing your back lawn would justify its annexation by your next door neighbour.

 

[senojekips]

it already happened in australia...

Yeah,... quite correct, and if you've read the other posts that posed the same question, you'd see that the Aboriginals would not like to see us go, because the Indons or Chinese do not have social services, so the point is moot.

if some one did manage to to take over and live here for generations there is no way to make them to leave whether i liked it or not.

Ahhh,.. that's what i like to see, apathy at full throttle, what a sight. I'm glad you are not defending me.

 

[captiva303]

Ahhh,.. that's what i like to see, apathy at full throttle, what a sight. I'm glad you are not defending me.

who said i would let that happen? i would die trying to prevent it, but what you asked me to do was to imagine if we were in the same position as Palestine...
and to be honest i would probably be a terrorist if i was in Palestine,but being an outsider i am able to see the fact that although trying to get their land back is justifiable it is ultimately futile. this is because the Israelis now have lived there long enough for them to have a claim (atleast in their own minds) to their currently occupied lands(not including newer settlements they should stop and should be ripped up). i would suggest going back to a two state solution similar to the one drawn up in 1948 just to keep it simple and it would require both sides to compromise.
what do you suggest as your solution? where do you think all the jews are going to go? you cant exactly send them back to their ancestors country of origin.