Where to Palestine?

[ASTRALdragon]

Well, why do we bother going to the defence of other countries who have been wrongfully occupied? Yes,.... the answer is as simple as it is embarrassing here,... it was partially our fault that this ridiculous decision was made in the first place. So really it is just to save face and not admit that we made one of the biggest modern day **** ups regarding world stability that has ever been made. If for no other reason than we just stood back and allowed this travesty of justice to occur.

Well, this is just speculation at best. Plus, like I stated earlier, the world cannot afford to sit here and play the blame game. I mean, we could, but then that just means more people will suffer and die every day. My question is: What do you propose to happen now? Here are the facts: 1) Israel is not going anywhere. 2) Palestine needs its own state. 3) Jerusalem is a holy center for 3 religions.

It's not harsh, but it does show a complete lack of thought.... It was for the same reason the US never made a really good defence at Pearl Harbour,.... They never thought that anyone would be so stupid, ignorant or arrogant as to allow it to happen, but it did.

Your analogy is bit flawed in the way that I was talking about a country being divided by its conquerors. Japan was not trying to invade the United States. The attack on Pearl Harbor was a military attempt to keep the United States out of the Pacific while Japan mops up the rest of Asia. Oh and the United States did fight back (quite successfully too). Palestine.... well here we are.

 

[senojekips]

Well, this is just speculation at best. Plus, like I stated earlier, the world cannot afford to sit here and play the blame game. I mean, we could, but then that just means more people will suffer and die every day. My question is: What do you propose to happen now? Here are the facts: 1) Israel is not going anywhere. 2) Palestine needs its own state. 3) Jerusalem is a holy center for 3 religions.

And I suppose you know of a solution that is not based on speculation? All plans are speculative until proven. All you have done is pose more questions not suggested a viable answer. Until someone accepts the blame and starts doing something about it you are correct, more will continue to die. The first step to stopping this might be to get Israel to accept that they are only a very small minority occupying force and they must give the owners of the country a say in how it is administered. A la South Africa.

Your analogy is bit flawed in the way that I was talking about a country being divided by its conquerors. Japan was not trying to invade the United States. The attack on Pearl Harbor was a military attempt to keep the United States out of the Pacific while Japan mops up the rest of Asia. Oh and the United States did fight back (quite successfully too). Palestine.... well here we are.

Yes, most certainly, once the US got it's act together, but the Palestinians have never had that chance having been occupied by other countries for over 100 years, effectively stopping any chance of the going ahead and developing their own country.

The simple fact is that US politicians are far more worried about the US Jewish vote than they are about what is morally right. If the US were to stop supporting Israel tomorrow, we would be well onto the path for peace and the US would be a richer and far safer place to live, not to mention the lives it would save. It would also virtually emasculate Muslim groups like Al Qaeda.

I may be wrong, but at the moment I don't think my theories could make a bigger mess of it than it is already.

 

[benaakatz]

senojoekips....until you stop listening to only one side/view and start seeing things from BOTH sides, there is no point in arguing these points anymore.

you sight ramallah and jenin as massacres. this is heinous. instead of wiping out the area from air like any other army, the idf went house to house to pick out the terrorists, putting oour boys in grave danger. the arab casualties did not even number 100, with the majority of them being armed fighters.

once again, you insist on the myth of there being this ancient palestinian people in the land forever. yes there were people living there, but they had no political allegiance, no nationality. in the 1800s it was a mixture of many peoples.

and once again you cannot get around the fact that jews remained there and retained a presence there throughout time.

moreover, the jews who returned to this area bought all the land. they didnt steal it. buying something means not stealing. its a pretty simple concept.

finally, the most important point. most of the arabs moved there after the modern wave of jewish immigration. before the area was an awful, desolate place. after the jews turned it in to a economic and cultivatable land, many arabs moved (from the surrounding areas, egypt, jordan, syria, etc) AFTER the jews made it a liveable place.

the truth is that many, many palestinians do not even trace back to this land or have far reaching roots in the land.

so you can continue to argue these points and fantasize about those jews seizing land and committing "massacres" like jenin. but you gotta look at history man. the jews have every right to be here as much as the arabs who call themselves palestinians.

 

[benaakatz]

both sides have claims to the land, both peoples have roots to it.

the majority of jews/israelis dont deny this. now its time for the arabs and palestinians to reciprocate

2 states for 2 peoples.

no denying either side self determination or its state.

 

[benaakatz]

who are the "palestinians"?

While the modern media maybe short on information about the history of the "Palestinian people" the historical record is not. Books, such as Battleground by Samuel Katz and From Time Immemorial by Joan Peters long ago detailed the history of the region. Far from being settled by Palestinians for hundreds, if not thousands of years, the Land of Israel, according to dozens of visitors to the land, was, until the beginning of the last century, practically empty. Alphonse de Lamartine visited the land in 1835. In his book, Recollections of the East, he writes "Outside the gates of Jerusalem we saw no living object, heard no living sound.." None other than the famous American author Mark Twain, who visited the Land of Israel in 1867, confirms this. In his book Innocents Abroad he writes, "A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely.. We never saw a human being on the whole journey." Even the British Consul in Palestine reported, in 1857, "The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population."

In fact, according to official Ottoman Turk census figures of 1882, in the entire "Land of Israel" ["Palestine" on BOTH sides of the Jordan River... see http://masada2000.org/historical.html), there were only 141,000 Muslims, both Arab and non-Arab. This number was to skyrocket to 650,000 Arabs by 1922, a 450% increase in only 40 years. By 1938 that number would become over 1 million or an 800% increase in only 56 years. Population growth was especially high in areas where Jews lived. Where did all these Arabs come from? According to the Arabs the huge increase in their numbers was due to natural childbirth. In 1944, for example, they alleged that the natural increase (births minus deaths) of Arabs in the Land of Israel was the astounding figure of 334 per 1000. That would make it roughly three times the corresponding rate for the same year of Lebanon and Syria and almost four times that of Egypt, considered amongst the highest in the world. Unlikely, to say the least. If the massive increase was not due to natural births, then were did all these Arabs come from?

All the evidence points to the neighboring Arab states of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan. In 1922 the British Governor of the Sinai noted that "illegal immigration was not only going on from the Sinai, but also from Transjordan and Syria." In 1930, the British Mandate -sponsored Hope-Simpson Report noted that "unemployment lists are being swollen by immigrants from Trans-Jordania" and "illicit immigration through Syria and across the northern frontier of Palestine is material." The Arabs themselves bare witness to this trend. For example, the governor of the Syrian district of Hauran, Tewfik Bey el Hurani, admitted in 1934 that in a single period of only a few months over 30,000 Syrians from Hauran had moved to the Land of Israel. Even British Prime Minister Winston Churchill noted the Arab influx. Churchill, a veteran of the early years of the British mandate in the Land of Israel, noted in 1939 that "far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied."

Far from displacing the Arabs, as they claimed, the Jews were the very reason the Arabs chose to settle in the Land of Israel. Jobs provided by newly established Zionist industry and agriculture lured them there, just as Israeli construction and industry provides most Arabs in the Land of Israel with their main source of income today. Malcolm MacDonald, one of the principal authors of the British White Paper of 1939, which restricted Jewish immigration to the Land of Israel, admitted (conservatively) that were it not for a Jewish presence the Arab population would have been little more than half of what it actually was. Today, when due to the latest "intifada" Arabs from the territories under 35 are no longer allowed into pre-1967 Israel to work, unemployment has skyrocketed to over 40% and most rely on European aid packages to survive.

 

[benaakatz]

Moreover

The Palestinian people [do] not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa. While as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan. (PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein, March 31, 1977, interview with the Dutch newspaper Trouw.)

The facts are as follows based on UN records:

1. Palestine was a British invention after WWI and never existed as an independent state. Most of this "Palestine" is called Jordan today.

2. The small number of people (700,000) occupied the entire Palestine Mandate which included Israel, the West Bank, Golon Heights, Gaza and Jordan today. Most of the Arab populations lived East of the Jordan River.

3. The common usage of the word "Palestinian" refers to people who live in Palestine: Arabs (a "mixed race of Arabic speaking peoples"), Bedouins, Christians, Druze, and Jews.

4. Under Muslim rule the region had been reduced to a barren wasteland. Jews were the only people that produced anything causing resentment from the masses of illiterate and poverty-ridden Arabs. Jews never held any political power until 1948.

5. The British didn't want a Jewish majority in the region. This led in later years to a policy of systematically reduced immigration quotas, and indirectly to the death of millions of Jewish refugees in Europe twenty some years later. The British would illegally partition the region into Jordan, (forbidding Jews from living there) then stripped off the Golon Heights giving that to France and Syria. Calling the remainder "Palestine" then flooding it with outside Arabs.

6. Constant agitation by outside Arabs and others leading to riots and murders of Jews. The British did nothing to stop this. Immigration and travel restrictions were almost universally applied only to Jews, no restriction was placed on Arab immigration to help flood the region with Arabs the British favored. Jews were the only economic success even with all of this going on.

7. Whenever there were Arab riots, Jewish immigration was restricted. This was the beginning of the British Policy of Appeasement, and the success of terrorism. The success of terrorism goes on today and appeasement still fails today. When will they ever learn?

8. All lands acquired by Jews were purchased, not taken according to Arafat's Nazi Uncle in 1937 and the British. Haj Amin al-Husseini was a Nazi war criminal wanted in Yugoslavia and mixed Nazi ideology into Islam. Arafat in fact wasn't even a Palestinian, but was born, raised, and educated in Egypt. According to Forbes, his estate is estimated to be worth over $300 million while he locked his own people into concentration camps.

9. Between 1950 and 1967 when Jordan and Egypt annexed the West Bank and Gaza, they flooded the area with more Arabs. Even today most Arabs in the West Bank, etc. hold Jordanian passports and Jordanian citizenship. After 1967 Jordan/Egypt relinquished claims to the area then started to scream for a second Palestinian state in addition to the first Palestinian State of Jordan. Before that, they claimed Palestine meant land of the Jews.

10. Even with immigration from Russia in the 1990's, the majority of Israelis are descended from Arab, Asian, and African Jews including two-thirds of the 870,000 Arab Jews expelled from surrounding Arab states. Druze, Bedouins, Christians, and some Arabs sided with the Jews in 1948 and serve in the Israeli Army today. The Israeli military has three Arab generals.

 

[MontyB]

The Palestinian people [do] not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism.

But "Jewish is not a race it is a religion, I can become Jewish, you can become Christian but I am betting neither of us can become Asian.

"Race is a genetic distinction, and refers to people with shared ancestry and shared genetic traits. You can't change your race; it's in your DNA."

It is this fact that your argument founders on because if Jewish isn't a race then all those that "migrated" from Europe have no connection or claim to the area now called Israel, hell we can both become Catholic but see what happens if we try move to Rome and start annexing suburbs for the Vatican.

 

[senojekips]

senojoekips....until you stop listening to only one side/view and start seeing things from BOTH sides, there is no point in arguing these points anymore.

I was a supporter of Israel until the availability of cameras started to make new evidence easily available on the internet some 10-15 years ago. This was made worse when I found out that many of these cameras were actually provided by Israeli human rights oganisations like B'Tselem to document the attrocities against the Palestinians. I think it might be you who actually needs to open both eyes.

you sight ramallah and jenin as massacres. this is heinous. instead of wiping out the area from air like any other army, the idf went house to house to pick out the terrorists, putting our boys in grave danger. the arab casualties did not even number 100, with the majority of them being armed fighters once again, you insist on the myth of there being this ancient palestinian people in the land forever. yes there were people living there, but they had no political allegiance, no nationality. in the 1800s it was a mixture of many peoples..

Please provide a credible source for this. Even if they were a collection of many peoples, that does not mean that they do not own the land.

and once again you cannot get around the fact that jews remained there and retained a presence there throughout time.

All of this has been shown before several times, The Jews have always been a minority in the area, ... always, and they still are. for the 1200 years prior to the flood of european Jews arriving since 1900, the land was almost completely devoid if Jews..

moreover, the jews who returned to this area bought all the land. they didnt steal it. buying something means not stealing. its a pretty simple concept.

Can you provide a credible source for that, the way I understand it most of the Palestinian land was just "Acquired" (Stolen) at absolute minimum price if it was paid for at all. This behaviour has been in the news recently with many hours of newsreel evidence showing "settlers" (theives) illegally occupying Palestinian land and terrorising those Palestinians who have to live around them with beatings, abuse, stonings of men, women and children, and even shootings some of which are supported and undertaken by the Israeli army. There are video clips already posted on this Forum showing all of this, and i can find a lot more if you attempt to deny it. It is lies such as you are telling here, that to me are the proof that Israel is an illegitimate terrorist state.

finally, the most important point. most of the arabs moved there after the modern wave of jewish immigration. before the area was an awful, desolate place. after the jews turned it in to a economic and cultivatable land, many arabs moved (from the surrounding areas, egypt, jordan, syria, etc) AFTER the jews made it a liveable place.

From Encyclopaedia Britanica - Arab population 1900 to 1948:

The population of Palestine, predominantly agricultural, was about 690,000 in 1914 (535,000 Muslims; 70,000 Christians, most of whom were Arabs; and 85,000 Jews).http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...m-1900-to-1948
By my reckoning that makes535,000 + 70,000 = 605,000 Arabs and 85,000 Jews or 85.95% Arabs

By the end of 2004, Israel's population reached 6,869,500, including 5,237,600 Jews (76.2 percent), 1,340,200 Israeli Arabs (19.5 percent)

and 291,700 "others" (4.2 percent).http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...148583,00.html (Israeli figures)

To simplify that for you, that is an increase in Jewish population of 6,162% (Yes, six thousand percent) and an increase of 221% in the Arab population (two hundred and twenty one percent. So, this demonstrates quite clearly that the total population of Arabs between 1900 and 2004 went from 85% to 24.6% and yet you blather on about a flood of Arabs into Israel I think you have the shoe on the wrong foot meaning quite clearly "A flood of predominantly European Jews"

the truth is that many, many palestinians do not even trace back to this land or have far reaching roots in the land.

I would like a credible source for that, as I don't think that anyone would voluntarily move to where they are going to be beaten , shot and otherwise terrorised by the present occupiers and there is a lot of photographice evidence to show that this is what is happening

so you can continue to argue these points and fantasize about those jews seizing land and committing "massacres" like jenin. but you gotta look at history man. the jews have every right to be here as much as the arabs who call themselves palestinians.

I only have to look at the evidence to see who is fantasizing and I will post a few more videos of the lovely Israeli people up to their tricks to back my claim as soon as i get back from a meeting I must attend. Then maybe we can move on to the warcrimes,... yes there is also plenty of video evidence of that which you could easily see if you bothered to read the other threads on this Forum, but I would much prefer to drag them out again, just so you can keep being reminded of the Nazi like policies of Israel against the palestinians.

Also, The israelis made Palestine a livable place for their own purposes, it's not like they did it for the Owners of the land, and how exactly does making it "livable" give you the right to steal it. If I paint my neighbours house, that does not mean that it them belongs to me. Anyway,... I think you'll find that the Palestinians were happy with it the way it was, before you stole it.

I would love to stay, but i must go out,... but don't worry, I'll be back.

 

[EladBell]

I would love to stay, but i must go out,... but don't worry, I'll be back.

sounds like a threat

 

[senojekips]

sounds like a threat

Naaahhh,..... I just enjoy dispelling these lies. There is just so much supporting evidence for me to choose from. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

The Israelis must be really cursing the advent of the cheap camera phone, they have now lost the ability to censor the information gathered on the spot and at the time the atrocities are being committed. One of my favourites from the Gaza slaughter was the one showing the airburst WP shells being used, something that the Israelis actually denied until the video was produced. they also denied using their Navy to prevent the Gazans from fishing or outsiders from bringing in humanitarian aide.

White Phosphorus in Gaza

So Benaakatz,.. this is your marvellous Israeli army minimising civilian casualties,... eh?

Israeli Navy Attacks Fishermen and Humanitarian Aide Vessel

Well,... I suppose it's not surprising, they deny everything don't they?
Ah,.. but don't worry, there is already pressure being bought to bear, to ensure that Israeli War Criminals will be bought before the world court in the Hague. Many said that they'd never catch up with Radovan Karadzic, but it's amazing what international pressure can bring about.

 

[EladBell]

actually there are evidences,u just look aside and not willing to even consider understanding the real things as they are,as we understand them,and that is why even what the PLO member said and u can read that in benaakatz post cant convince u.
again it is always the most easiest thing to say,"leave them alone,they are weak and they deserve a country"well i first hand do not belive they deserve a country,as we KNOW(and we do know let face it) they had a chance for a country but then they decided to start a war,attacking Jewish settelments and convoys,and in war as we know,men die men live and men conqure,u cant blame the defending side for winning(and yes it won,if 7 armies invade your newly created country(even if u dont belive its a country it still is like Kosovo))so they said to thermselves,why not go to the negev? to Eilat? to the Bank?,we are at war so why not try to expand our selves.

my friend im sure u know better than me that war is not preatty and war has its prices,if u start a war,dont be to suprised if u loose all that is dear to u.

the Oracl of Delphi once told to a king that if he would go to war a great nation would be destryed,the fool king never thought that th\at nation is his and casued the destruction of his nation.
war is not friendly and has it price,which is land,resources and the utter price-lives!

 

[EladBell]

i'd like to see u hittting a guy who shots missiles from a market or a school full of people,again all u see and hear is the other side,becasue they israelis dont speak much

 

[Yossarian]

EladBell, people are going to have a hard time believing you, one the Palestinians are pushing hard, and I don't see that going away, and even tho I am not, many people who hold opinions about the issue, they don't consider Israel a legitimate state. It doesn't matter the fact is that people are going to be pushing on Israel to withdraw. Not just westerners people everywhere. True, war can bring spoils but right now Israel is at the end of the barrel of world attention, and you are right the Israelis don't speak much, which I think just lets the world run amok with their own opinions.

There are two sides to every coin, and Palestine and the Israeli state both have stories and struggles on both. The world should just stop choosing heads or tails and look at both sides issues and then think of a solution. If you make one side happy without comprise to the other then you are just setting the stage for more conflict in the future.

 

[EladBell]

the things is that mmost of what u se on TV s from the other side,becsue the other side has no regime,and thereoreha no police,there is soeknd of a force that is called Police but it belongs to hammas so the would broaadcast many horros that do happen,i never said that Issrael dont hit innocent me and women,we do,but we do not target them,our targets is the hammas terororists,and if they hide in civilians then they would have to explaine them why thier sons got killed,not us.

 

[senojekips]

actually there are evidences,u just look aside and not willing to even consider understanding the real things as they are,as we understand them

There's part of your answer, ... As you see it. The trouble with what you say is that the world no longer sees it the same way that you do. Things are only the way they are, because that is the way that Israel has chosen to make it. I have nothing to gain or lose personally in this argument, so I can very easily look at it without bias and what I see sickens me,... but, I'm not the minority I once was, now that we have easily accessible news shown from both sides people around the world are slowly waking up, just as I did. Bodies like the UN are realising that it is Israel, not the Palestinians who are committing war crimes and crimes against humanity

my friend im sure u know better than me that war is not preatty and war has its prices,if u start a war,dont be to suprised if u loose all that is dear to u.

Don't expect me to feel guilty because you are waging war against an innocent people, and don't expect them to just roll over and accept your terms to steal their country. Yes, war is terrible,... but when someone occupies your country, you don't just say,... War is terrible so let's just give it to them.

You know that you have stolen the land as shown by David Ben Gurion's speech

Ben-Gurion recognized the strong attachment of Palestinian Arabs to the land but hoped that this would be overcome in time. In a conversation about "the Arab problem" in 1956, Goldman wrote that Ben-Gurion stated: "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army.

---snip---war is not friendly and has it price,which is land,resources and the utter price-lives!

Yes, and the Palestinians will keep you fighting because the longer they do, the more people in the world get to see what is really going on. They know that eventually world opinion will force Israel to do something about it, and the longer Israel waits the harder it is going to be for them. Remember South Africa? another country that was run by a minority.

Israeli Nazis beating Palestinians

Peaceful Israelis helping their Palestinian Neighbours NOT

All of this has been said before.

 

[EladBell]

now that we have easily accessible news shown from both sides people around the world are slowly waking up, just as I did.

now there is where u a re wrong,what the hezbollah shows u and what the gazzans show u is not the actuall truth,and this is where u and most of the world wrong,they show u how they rescue the same child 5 times!! 5 times a little girl is being drwan away from the rubbles.
they fabricate those news,and becasue u and the rest of the world pitty them u actually buy it and blame us,but what u dont see is the destrucation in Sderot,Ashkelon,Beer-Sheva,Acco,Haifa,Kiryat Shmona

because u always want to see them as those who are being killed,again,if only would u open your eyes and understand that these guys had alot of chances that they chose to Ignore,Arafat,Egypt peace treaty,Jordan peeace treaty.
again ik tell u,stop looking at thier bodies,we have bodies also,its not our fault that we have an army that acftually kills it slef to defend those who has nothing to do with the fighting.
http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3083,00.html
read tghat website,once a week and see the efforts israel is making not to harm civilinas.if we shoot at civilains its because they are hiding terrorists aor weapon caches,u dont kbnow how we do that do u?
u dont know we call them 5 times a day before going in,u dont know we bomb with a little bomb tthe yard so the ppl there would know we are about to bomb the house,u dont know that we spread milions of flyrs in gaza before the IDF goes in,tell me,what other army in the world tells it's enemy when,where,how and in what strangth it will attack u?

u know nothing and u speak 10000 miles away about a conflict u have nothing to do with,if it was your home bombard u would have done the same,AKA drezden!

 

[EladBell]

Yes, and the Palestinians will keep you fighting because the longer they do, the more people in the world get to see what is really going on. They know that eventually world opinion will force Israel to do something about it, and the longer Israel waits the harder it is going to be for them. Remember South Africa? another country that was run by a minority.

i dont think that the state of Israel has any problem fighting agaisnt militants for even 500 years,it is them who live in poverty while my little sister is playing on her playstaion,if they want war be my guest,just dont cry when they loose it

what minority do u speak of???
there are 6 mnilion jews in israel and maybe 1.5 mil arabs,if u speak of the region then they tried that before,we saw where that led them

 

[senojekips]

now there is where u a re wrong,what the hezbollah shows u and what the gazzans show u is not the actuall truth,and this is where u and most of the world wrong,they show u how they rescue the same child 5 times!! 5 times a little girl is being drwan away from the rubbles.

Show me the video of this, never the less that is a standard thing with news crews but what you miss is the fact that you shouldn't have created the rubble in the first place.

they fabricate those news,and becasue u and the rest of the world pitty them u actually buy it and blame us,but what u dont see is the destrucation in Sderot,Ashkelon,Beer-Sheva,Acco,Haifa,Kiryat Shmona

If it was just one or two movies there is a slight chance that you were right, but there are hundreds of them and many of them are taken by countries that have nothing to gain from either side, France Britain Norway and even American news teams.

read tghat website,once a week and see the efforts israel is making not to harm civilinas.if we shoot at civilains its because they are hiding terrorists aor weapon caches,u dont kbnow how we do that do u?

Israeli Army shoots farmer harvesting His Fields

Tell me does this look like terrorists hiding weapons or a weapons cache,... with International observers there?.... You Lie and every time you lie people believe you less, Israel is slowly destroying world support.

u know nothing and u speak 10000 miles away about a conflict u have nothing to do with,if it was your home bombard u would have done the same,AKA drezden!

What you need to realise is that a TV signal takes less tham 1 second to go from Palestine to Australia, distance does not matter any more. That is your mistake, you think that because we are far away we can't see and hear what is going on. Sorry,.. the days where you could just murder people and get away with it, are over.

 

[EladBell]

what u need to relise is that TV never say the truth,do u always bellive the newspaper andd the TV?
come on lets be reasonable and not little children.
if the norwagen wats to sow th sffre of the arabs they can do that,but that dosent eman there is no suffer on our side,i dont play the gaame whoo sufers more,ofcourse they do and i dont care,i really dont,when they would give up fighting and when they give up thieer arrogancce(that i do not unndeerstand,tgey lost any struggle they went through) and saying that the resictgence will carry on hurting us(a thing that dossent happen at all)then there will be peace,not when we will stop protecting ourselves

 

[EladBell]

again we saw what the intervention of the arabs nation gave them in the last 60 eyars right?
u speak like there is no support what so evver for the arabs,i dont think they can geet any more spport,but when u get X amount of money and u spend 90% of that X for weapons dont be suprised if it would be ssuspicouses