when will people learn - Page 3




 
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Boots
 
March 23rd, 2005  
Vitaly
 
http://www.bradycampaign.org/legisla...tate.php?st=oh

What a beautiful state that I live in.

Sadly I can't find any resources for Gun Violence % before and after the CCW legislation was passed.
March 23rd, 2005  
serbianpower
 
These incidents are a relatively new phenomenon. They didn't start showing up until movies, TV, and video games made violence an everyday event for young people and in so doing made it impersonal and unrealistic. That isn't all the entirety of the equation, however, society itself is most of the rest of it. We've grown apart as a society. Malls have replaced village street stores, jobs demand much more parental time, and neighbors can live for years right beside each other and never know anything about one another. I count myself fortunate to live in an area of the country that has not seen a great deal of that change in society. We have plenty of guns, see the movies, TV shows and video games, but in the past year there were only 8 murders in Vermont out of a population of 600,000. And 6 of those murders were a drunken spouse (4 men and 2 women) who killed their wife or husband. The other 2 murders were a couple of out-of-state teenagers who murdered a elderly couple and robbed them.


it is true that tv,video games and all that stuff have negative influence. but I have feeling that this kind of incidents are more frequent in states than in other countries. what do you thin could be the reason? other countries have tv, games... too.
you mentioned chainges in society, neighbour not knowing neighbour, but as I could see this kind of mass murder incidents are more frequent in smaller cities, mostly somewhere in countryside. what do you think could be reason for this?

this is terrible tragedy. you live in small place, you think there cant be safer place on planet, you kid is in school... next thing you hear...
man
March 23rd, 2005  
Charge 7
 
 
The loss of connection to society is pervasive. You hear more about these killings that happen in smaller localities because they are the most shocking. Shocking news sells. There's just as many of these things happening in larger cities. Usually they are in crime rampant areas to begin with so they don't hit the national news quite so spectatularly. I remember when I was visiting my brother in Seattle for example. Thirteen members of a China Town gang were murdered all at once. It never broke the local news station to go national. Ten kids and teachers getting killed is just a bigger story than thirteen thugs it's just that simple.

Also, do not mistake me, I'm not saying small town communities are less likely to see this happen. I'm saying that any place that loses its ties to society is more open to this kind of circumstance. Vermont is very proud of its community involvement. Town Meeting day is a time we all look forward to when we can directly affect our local government and block parties, social clubs and the like are very common. Not every rural area in the country has kept these old time functions intact.
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Boots
March 23rd, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
OK then, i put my own case foward;


when i was five my four year old brother died


from around seven i was teased & bullied through school for pretty much the rest of my primary and secondary school career.

from age 13 i was either depressed or under medication for it. i played very violent video games, watched war movies & listened to metal.

i was bullied by the cool kids. i thought of killing the cool kids.


and yet, there wasn't a school shooting at my high school. why?

I DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO FIREARMS!

sure anyone can kill but a firearm (ie handgun or semi auto) makes it very easy to kill many people very efficiently.
March 23rd, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
OK then, i put my own case foward;


when i was five my four year old brother died


from around seven i was teased & bullied through school for pretty much the rest of my primary and secondary school career.

from age 13 i was either depressed or under medication for it. i played very violent video games, watched war movies & listened to metal.

i was bullied by the cool kids. i thought of killing the cool kids.


and yet, there wasn't a school shooting at my high school. why?

I DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO FIREARMS!

sure anyone can kill but a firearm (ie handgun or semi auto) makes it very easy to kill many people very efficiently.
The question remains whether it is best to solve the problem that made you want to use a firearm or remove your option to use one.

I personally think that first option is the best.

However I cant pretend to understand the bullying thing, I was always taught to fight back and win or lose you have proven you are not afraid which usually buys you a fair bit of leeway. I guess it comes down to different lifestyles.
March 23rd, 2005  
Bory
 
 
There are quite a few good points here. But this one comes very close to me for a few reasons.

My best mate has been a shooter since he was six. Before 96(after the Port Arthur Massacer), he had shot his dad's Ruger .303, Uncles M-16, 12" shotty, and god knows what else he could get his hands on. He still has rifles, and his old man keeps pistols. He shoots in competions, and follows the laws, no matter hwo stupid they are in New South Wales (the state I live in)

A few years back, he was getting bullied real heavy at School. It was rellentless, and he broke down and told me one day he was either going kill the bullies or himself.

Now here is the thing, he told me how, and it is very disturbing so I won't go into details, and he didn't wan't to use a single firearm, because they would be taken from his dad.

Thankfully he has had some therapy, he is doing a course out of school, and the bullies have left. The point is, people who commit these acts like the Port Arthur Massacer, have a serious problems and need help. You don't just snap, something makes you snap, and it takes time.

Now I'm not saying everybody should own a firearm, I know people I wouldn't trust with a ciggaret lighter, but don't punish law abiding citizens, and try and detect any problems early and then try to solve the problems. None of this "All Guns are Bad"
You can be a very sensible person, and still own a firearm.
March 23rd, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
exactly....i'm not into the whole "all guns are bad".

i have a rifle, i go hunting at least twice a year, i have moved on from the dark parts of my life,


but i'm certianly glad that in those dark days i didn't have the easy(er) access to firearms that i would have had in the US.


my question is this; what is the point of owning an m-16 (or other assualt style weapon) unless you are in the military?
i can see the point for handguns (and i wish you didn't have the need) in the US.


what would it take for the US to adopt commonwealth style gun laws?
March 23rd, 2005  
Big_Z
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Quote:
so where are the spots you avoid in NZ monty?
Pretty much anywhere in south Auckland, most of the smaller east coast North island towns, specific areas of New Plymouth (being based there now).

I really just dont accept the "ban guns" and the problem is solved argument because if someone is going to go nuts with a weapon they are going to use whatever is at hand, I accept that you might keep the death toll down by removing guns from the equation but it wont solve the problem.

Quote:
I think it's kinda unfair to compare it with New Zealand though. From what I know of that place it's supposed to be extremely peaceful. As in EXTREMELY. Any place would seem violent compared to that. But I don't know New Zealand well so...
You obviously havent spent time in NZ, I think we have one of the highest family violence rates in the world if not the highest, the only real difference here is that we tend to beat the crap out of each other rather than shoot each other.
Lol come spend a week in my city, it would change your perspective. If you did you would want a weapon, not try to ban them. The worst places in NZ would be disneyland compared to some American cities. This is EXACTLY why you don't understand why Americans do the things we do, two entirely different mentalities.
March 23rd, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Z
You obviously havent spent time in NZ, I think we have one of the highest family violence rates in the world if not the highest, the only real difference here is that we tend to beat the crap out of each other rather than shoot each other.
Lol come spend a week in my city, it would change your perspective. If you did you would want a weapon, not try to ban them. The worst places in NZ would be disneyland compared to some American cities. This is EXACTLY why you don't understand why Americans do the things we do, two entirely different mentalities.[/quote]

chicken & the egg here i think,

is the US dangerous before the guns, or does the US need the guns because it's dangerous.
March 23rd, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Quote:
so where are the spots you avoid in NZ monty?
Pretty much anywhere in south Auckland, most of the smaller east coast North island towns, specific areas of New Plymouth (being based there now).

I really just dont accept the "ban guns" and the problem is solved argument because if someone is going to go nuts with a weapon they are going to use whatever is at hand, I accept that you might keep the death toll down by removing guns from the equation but it wont solve the problem.

Quote:
I think it's kinda unfair to compare it with New Zealand though. From what I know of that place it's supposed to be extremely peaceful. As in EXTREMELY. Any place would seem violent compared to that. But I don't know New Zealand well so...
You obviously havent spent time in NZ, I think we have one of the highest family violence rates in the world if not the highest, the only real difference here is that we tend to beat the crap out of each other rather than shoot each other.
Lol come spend a week in my city, it would change your perspective. If you did you would want a weapon, not try to ban them. The worst places in NZ would be disneyland compared to some American cities. This is EXACTLY why you don't understand why Americans do the things we do, two entirely different mentalities.
THe only Major US city I didnt like was Chicago, (although I admit parts of Long Beach California looked like areas I wouldnt walk through in the early hours) other than that Florida is the only US state I havent seen so I have a reasonable grasp of US cities and they dont strike me as any more dangerous than any other large cities anywhere in the world.