Whats the diifernse between a terrorist and a hero??




 
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Boots
 
May 12th, 2005  
grizzly
 

Topic: Whats the diifernse between a terrorist and a hero??


What is the differense??
Some will say a hero is a good guy and a terrorist is a bad guy

Truthfully i see no differense. We look at people like Bin Laden, Saddam, and Hitler as terrorists, killers, and criminals but take the time to think not everyone beleives that.
Dont get me wrong I think they are. But do you think that the Nazis, the SS, and the SA thought that Hitler was a terrorist. No they thought that he was a hero. But the Jews and the Hitler resistance goups saw him as a murdrer.
Do you think that the reblers fighting against our brothers and sisters in uniform think saddam was a criminal. If they did we wouldn't be fighting them

Also look at Samal Adams, George Washington, and therest of the Sons of Liberty. I bet that you look at them as heros that fought of the British during the Revolutionary War. I do. What do you think that the Redcoats and the tax collectorssaw them as??? What did they think as they were being tarred and feathered??? I bet they thought that they were terrorists
fighting against the monarch.

Post your thoughts
May 12th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
I don't think there is enough bandwidth available to cover this topic fully as there has been an enormous blurring of the term "terrorist" since 9/11 you then have to reconcile things against what a rebel, freedom fighter, resistance fighter are.

Essentially the problem is that 9/11 was a terrorist attack but I am not certain the Iraq situation is a terrorist operation even though it is now being carried out by the same people (for example how do you describe the IRA terrorists or Freedom fighters, what about the French resistance during ww2, all killed soldiers and civilians alike but all perceived in very different ways).

In terms of Hitler, Hussein and the SS and the like well they are just murderers of epic proportion.

Perhaps the old addage "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" is correct.
May 12th, 2005  
Gunner13
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I don't think there is enough bandwidth available to cover this topic fully as there has been an enormous blurring of the term "terrorist" since 9/11 you then have to reconcile things against what a rebel, freedom fighter, resistance fighter are.
Blurring? What blurring The key thing that distinguishes a terrorist from any of the others, no matter who they are or what they are fighting for, are the tactics used. Terrorism is the use of force, or the threat of force, against a society or government to force or forestall change.

Terrorists deliberately target noncombatants (women, children, injured, medical and emergency personnel) and uninvolved third parties (relief workers, aid agencies, religious organizations) to get what they want. The others will not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
In terms of Hitler, Hussein and the SS and the like well they are just murderers of epic proportion.
You left out that they were all manically evil and were guilty of slaughtering their own people, the ones they are supposed to be protecting, as well as many others others. Add Stalin to the list and the pattern is clear

Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Perhaps the old addage "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" is correct.
I most vociferously Disagree MontyB. You have a bad case of moral relativism here. The key is what they are trying to accomplish (how can an radical Islamic Fascist be fighting for ANYONE's freedom if they want to enslave everyone ) and how they go about it.

How does the indiscriminant use of car bombs to kill and maim civilians advance the cause of freedom
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Boots
May 12th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
History is always written by the winners of course. Perspective is what determines who is the villian and the hero. To Americans our boys over in Iraq are heros but to islamic extremists they are the advance guard of the evil western plot to destory their way of live. To Americans our boys in Germany where liberators but to Germans at that time they where the mixed-race muts who where going to be sent back into the sea due their racial inferiority.


Through a thorough study of millitary history you will find that there are VERY VERY few wars between a truely 'good' guy and a truely 'bad' guy. Basically it comes down to the fact that your society and way of life are at odds with another groups society and way of life and war is the ultimate way these disputes are solved whether people like it or not.
May 12th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Terrorism is the use of force, or the threat of force, against a society or government to force or forestall change.
You may want to revise this statement, I would suggest being a bit clearer for example do you feel it applies in all cases or maybe it doesnt when its one nations government threatening another?.

Quote:
I most vociferously Disagree MontyB. You have a bad case of moral relativism here. Mad The key is what they are trying to accomplish (how can an radical Islamic Fascist be fighting for ANYONE's freedom if they want to enslave everyone Question ) and how they go about it.
Moral relativism I havent discussed right or wrong nor have I given much in the way of specifics therefore I hardly consider it moral relativism I would suggest you are jumping to conclusions.

But just for shits and giggles where does the IRA fit into your rather evangelistic defence?.
They arent Islamic, most of their funding was US supplied and many of their most wanted members were given virtual assylum in the US, they most certainly "target noncombatants (women, children, injured, medical and emergency personnel) and uninvolved third parties (relief workers, aid agencies, religious organizations) to get what they want" and lets not forget their " indiscriminant use of car bombs to kill and maim civilians advance the cause of freedom".

So I am sticking with the old addage "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter" because quite simply its the less one eyed of all the statements out there.

Quote:
History is always written by the winners of course. Perspective is what determines who is the villian and the hero. To Americans our boys over in Iraq are heros but to islamic extremists they are the advance guard of the evil western plot to destory their way of live. To Americans our boys in Germany where liberators but to Germans at that time they where the mixed-race muts who where going to be sent back into the sea due their racial inferiority.


Through a thorough study of millitary history you will find that there are VERY VERY few wars between a truely 'good' guy and a truely 'bad' guy. Basically it comes down to the fact that your society and way of life are at odds with another groups society and way of life and war is the ultimate way these disputes are solved whether people like it or not.
Agree 100% which is why I used the one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter comment as its really determined by which side of the war you are on.
May 12th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
I feel it is important for me to interject here that one needs to be careful when engaging in such broad-level thought without propper study to back it up. As confucious says, study without intellection is vain but intellection without study is dangerous.

Without full understanding it is this kind of broad level thought that leads people to counter-productive throught (Micheal Moore) or even becomming a traitor.

Some people just jump from "what is the difference between a terrorist and a hero?" to "George Washington was a terrorist" to "America is just the new evil empire and Osama is the George Washington of the Arabs!" so quite obviously "it is the islamacists that are correct and they should be aided in their fight for freedom from the emperical American yoke!"
May 12th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
But just for shits and giggles where does the IRA fit into your rather evangelistic defence?.
They arent Islamic, most of their funding was US supplied and many of their most wanted members were given virtual assylum in the US, they most certainly "target noncombatants (women, children, injured, medical and emergency personnel) and uninvolved third parties (relief workers, aid agencies, religious organizations) to get what they want" and lets not forget their " indiscriminant use of car bombs to kill and maim civilians advance the cause of freedom".

PIRA -Terrorist
FARC-Terrorist
MRTA-Terrorist
Tupac Amaru -Terrorist
AUC-Terrorist
Bader-Mienhoff- Terrorist
Red Army Faction-Terrorist
Vasque-Terrorist
Sendero Luminoso-Terrorist

None of the above are Islamic. Yet their tactics make them terrorists. The targeting of nonmilitary/noncombatant/civilian targets in an effort to destabilize a goverment or society.
However the sad fact of the matter is that most groups engaged in Global terrorism are funded and manned by Islamic Fundamentalists at this point.
May 12th, 2005  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Death
I feel it is important for me to interject here that one needs to be careful when engaging in such broad-level thought without propper study to back it up. As confucious says, study without intellection is vain but intellection without study is dangerous.

Without full understanding it is this kind of broad level thought that leads people to counter-productive throught (Micheal Moore) or even becomming a traitor.

Some people just jump from "what is the difference between a terrorist and a hero?" to "George Washington was a terrorist" to "America is just the new evil empire and Osama is the George Washington of the Arabs!" so quite obviously "it is the islamacists that are correct and they should be aided in their fight for freedom from the emperical American yoke!"
That was pretty much the point I was trying to make when I said the line between terrorist, rebel, freedom fighter is growing increasingly blurred the term "terrorist" is now being used to describe almost anything not supportive of the current regime irrespective of whether it it pro-west, east, capitalist, communist, christian, muslim or hindu.

Look at middle east from the western standpoint Hizbolah and Hamas are terrorists, from a Palestinian point of view thy are freedom fighters and the US and Israel are the terrorists. Chechenya is the same they see themselves as fighting to liberate their country Russia sees them as terrorists the definitition has now just boiled down to a one word description covering all events.
May 12th, 2005  
gladius
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whispering Death
Some people just jump from "what is the difference between a terrorist and a hero?" to "George Washington was a terrorist" to "America is just the new evil empire and Osama is the George Washington of the Arabs!" so quite obviously "it is the islamacists that are correct and they should be aided in their fight for freedom from the emperical American yoke!"
I disagree here.

George Washighton fought against the British Army directly.

Osama Bin Laden did NOT fight the US Army directly, instead he purposely and directly targeted innocent civillians.

The definitions are clear.

Freedom Fighter = Someone who restricts their war to mainly targeting military targets or production facilities with the purpose of destroying that countries military or causing military withdrawal.

Terrorist = Someone who actively and deliberately targets civillians as a means for their politcal or startegic end, or for political shock, with no real and imidiated hampering or destruction of the military.
May 12th, 2005  
Whispering Death
 
 
Oh, I'm with you Gladius, I'm just pointing out how jumps in logic can be made by people who have not studied this topic well enough. It's these kind of logic-gaps that lead a lot of people to do very stupid things for what they think are very smart reasons.