What lessons were learned from the Falklands War?

[BritinBritain]

As far as Maggie is concerned, she is still rated as our best Prime Minister, next to Churchill, and she dragged our nation up by its boot-straps. Isecond Le's position.

By destroying British Industry, shutting down coal mines that can never be re-opened, I for one don't regard that as pulling the nation up by the boot straps. As I stated previously, being in the position of relying on military hardware from foreign country's because of the destruction of British industry is dangerous, as we saw in the Falklands War when Belgium refused to supply ammunition.

Her infamous Poll Tax, who were the ones who benefited? Certainly not the ordinary person. I remember the plight of British nurses who were paying the same poll tax as someone living in an enormous house. Who's welfare did she really have at heart? Certainly not the working people. Dont even get me started on the plight of British pensioners, then and now. Before you ask, I am not a leftist, neither am I a rightist or bleeding heart liberal, I beleive in fairness.

As for being the best Prime Minister alongside Churchill, in my opinion she doesn't even come close.

However, Le, Delboy and I are never going to agree on this subject, and it is wavering from the orginal topic.

 

[perseus]

Regarding unions, these are now so weak they are almost useless, so it seems to have swung from one extreme to another. Individuals can be heavily discriminated against if a senior manager takes a personal dislike to them (unless they are female, black or gay). Business can disregard long term strategic thinking since most of their board are short term opportunists and have virtually no responsibility to the economy and society in general. Remember Thatcher didn't believe in society.

 

[LeEnfield]

The Miners.......Joe Gormally the Miners Union leader brought down the British Government as he disagreed with what they were doing. Aurthur Scargill tried the same thing and lost. Scragill had the miners out for over one year on strike and it found that coal could be imported for a fraction of the cost that it cost to mine it here. Also North Sea Oil and Gas where in plentiful supples so that rang the death knell to mines. The coal is still there if required and many of the pits are being looked at again to be used as open cast mining which is cheap to do and does not require the man power to get the coal out.
Back in the 1960's and 1970's the Big Trade Unions were ruling the country and if they did not get there way they went on strike. The Dockers in London started a campaign to make it the law that only Registered Dockers could deal with all the container traffic including the loading and unloading of the goods inside these containers.
My old Union the T&GWU would call certain members out to support other strikers this went on so much that the Government got rid of the business that I was working in.
The POLL TAX well I thought it was a bloody good idea, as it made all the people in a house of working age pay a bit towards the running of the local services. Now you could have some old age pensioner living in a house next door paying the same amount of money as the house next door which had a grown up family with both parents working and three or four children who were working and earning good money. The thing was that those young people that were using all the council leisure centres and every thing else that council provided for nothing and they did not want to see that changed. Yet the Pensioner next door could not afford to eat properly or to heat there house because they were supporting the well off family next door.

 

[BritinBritain]

The POLL TAX well I thought it was a bloody good idea, as it made all the people in a house of working age pay a bit towards the running of the local services.

The ordinary person in the street certainly or the elderly didn't benefit by the poll tax, so who did? The only ones who did, were the well off. The poll tax was one of the most detested taxes in British history as being completely unfair, and only benefit a certain few.

Now you could have some old age pensioner living in a house next door paying the same amount of money as the house next door which had a grown up family with both parents working and three or four children who were working and earning good money. The thing was that those young people that were using all the council leisure centres and every thing else that council provided for nothing and they did not want to see that changed. Yet the Pensioner next door could not afford to eat properly or to heat there house because they were supporting the well off family next door.

Was it unfair that a nurse living in a single room, paid the same POLL TAX that a person living in a massive mansion? I think not.

The POLL TAX was one of the main reasons that brought down Thatcher as well as her arrogance and unpopularity among her own government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poll_tax#20th_century:_community_charge
The Community Charge was a poll tax to fund local government in the United Kingdom, instituted in 1989 by the government of Margaret Thatcher. It replaced the rates that were based on the notional rental value of a house. The abolition of rates was in the manifesto of Thatcher's Conservative Party in the 1979 general election, and the replacement was proposed in the Green Paper of 1986, Paying for Local Government based on ideas developed by Dr Madsen Pirie and Douglas Mason of the Adam Smith Institute. It was a fixed tax per adult resident, but there was a reduction for poor people. Each person was to pay for the services provided in their community. This proposal was contained in the Conservative Manifesto for the 1987 General Election. The new tax replaced the rates in Scotland from the start of the 1989/90 financial year, and in England and Wales from the start of the 1990/91 financial year.
The system was deeply unpopular. It seemed to shift the tax burden from rich to poor, as it was based on the number of people living in a house rather than its estimated price. Many tax rates set by local councils proved to be much higher than earlier predictions, leading to resentment even among people who had supported it. The tax in different boroughs differed dramatically because local taxes paid by businesses varied and grants by central government to local authorities sometimes varied capriciously.
There were mass protests, called by the All-Britain Anti-Poll Tax Federation to which the vast majority of local Anti Poll Tax Unions (APTUs) were affiliated. In Scotland the APTUs called for mass non-payment and these calls rapidly gathered widespread support which spread to England and Wales, even though non-payment meant that people could be prosecuted. In some areas, 30% of former ratepayers defaulted. While owner-occupiers were easy to tax, those who regularly changed accommodation were almost impossible to pursue if they chose not to pay. The cost of collecting the tax rose steeply while the returns from it fell. Enforcement measures became increasingly draconian, and unrest grew and culminated in a number of Poll Tax Riots. The most serious was in a protest at Trafalgar Square, London, on March 31, 1990, of more than 200,000 protesters. A Labour MP, Terry Fields, was jailed for 60 days for refusing to pay his poll tax.
This unrest was instrumental in toppling Margaret Thatcher in 1990. Her replacement, John Major, replaced the Community Charge with the Council Tax system, effective from 1993-94. That tax was very similar to the rating system that preceded the Poll Tax. The main differences were that it was levied on capital value rather than notional rental value of a property, and that it had a 25% discount for single-occupancy dwellings.

I also refer to
http://mises.org/econsense/ch62.asp.

As I said before, we arent going to agree on this issue and does distract from the original topic of lessons learned from the Falklands War.

 

[Del Boy]

By destroying British Industry, shutting down coal mines that can never be re-opened, I for one don't regard that as pulling the nation up by the boot straps. As I stated previously, being in the position of relying on military hardware from foreign country's because of the destruction of British industry is dangerous, as we saw in the Falklands War when Belgium refused to supply ammunition.

Her infamous Poll Tax, who were the ones who benefited? Certainly not the ordinary person. I remember the plight of British nurses who were paying the same poll tax as someone living in an enormous house. Who's welfare did she really have at heart? Certainly not the working people. Dont even get me started on the plight of British pensioners, then and now. Before you ask, I am not a leftist, neither am I a rightist or bleeding heart liberal, I beleive in fairness.

As for being the best Prime Minister alongside Churchill, in my opinion she doesn't even come close.

However, Le, Delboy and I are never going to agree on this subject, and it is wavering from the orginal topic.

The nationalised mines were closed, and new prospects came into being. Miners privately owned by miners remained to a degree , but faded over the years due to non-profitability.

The Poll Tax never really saw the light of day, we have a much worse system which is pushing pensioners into poverty, and the quality of life down, the Council Tax, which has multiplied unmercifully under Labour's reign. After 11 years of Labour administration we are far poorer. The tax for the lowest paid, the very poorest, including pensioners on fixed pension, has been doubled from 10% to 20%.

You disagree with the majority of the British people regarding Maggie.

You will never agree with Le and I on this? I wonder why? I do not consider myself a Tory.

 

[BritinBritain]

The nationalised mines were closed, and new prospects came into being. Miners privately owned by miners remained to a degree , but faded over the years due to non-profitability.

The Poll Tax never really saw the light of day, we have a much worse system which is pushing pensioners into poverty, and the quality of life down, the Council Tax, which has multiplied unmercifully under Labour's reign. After 11 years of Labour administration we are far poorer. The tax for the lowest paid, the very poorest, including pensioners on fixed pension, has been doubled from 10% to 20%.

You disagree with the majority of the British people regarding Maggie.

You will never agree with Le and I on this? I wonder why? I do not consider myself a Tory.

The majority of people of British people regarding Thatcher? Perhaps the riots over the poll tax are a figment of my imagination, or that it was also my imagination that her own ministers had enough of her.​

From the Daily Telegraph 8th April 1990​

The survey results are another indication that ordinary Britons' simmering discontent over Mrs. Thatcher's policies has come to a boil. Several factors have turned up the heat, including inflation that is running at an annual rate of 8 percent and interest rates of 15 percent, which are hurting home-buyers. Critics say that a new head tax for local government services will make millions of households financially worse off. The levy falls on all adults and replaces real estate taxes that had previously been paid only by property owners and their tenants. It has provoked huge demonstrations and, in riots in central London last weekend, turned the spotlight on what some consider a growing chasm between the haves and have-nots. ​

From the BBC site 31st March​

More then 400 people were arrested and property damaged with repairs estimated at £400,000 after the demonstration which saw 100,000 people turn out to protest against the poll tax.
The demonstration had been proceeded by many smaller rallies across the country. The poll tax enraged people because it was a levy on individuals regardless of means.
The unpopularity contributed to the downfall of Margret Thatcher who resigned in November 1990 after 11 years at the helm of British politics.
Her successor, John Major,appointed Michael Hesltine Environment Secretary to dismantle the poll tax. It was replaced by the council tax – a levy relayed to the value of the house.​

Yep she was very popular, so popular that people rioted.​

And you wonder why I don't agree with Le on this? ​

LOL Oh boy​

Quite frankly this is getting somewhat tiresome, a LOT of people don't agree and will never agree with either you or Le, myself included. ​

 

[LeEnfield]

There was a mass student revolt against Maggie, the students were being made to pay some thing towards public services and they did not like it one little bit. Maggie was there at the time she she was the one to blame with every thing that went wrong in a students life. The Miners did not like it as she had bested them for a change. Eddie Shah had broken the cosy printers monopoly on labour and cost when he brought in new print technology and broke the Fleet Street Unions.
The Dockers were fighting against the use of the big ship containers which they had no control over, and the run down of London Docks.
She stopped pouring money into Motor manufacturing so that the Unions could walk out at a drop of a hat.
She made many people take responsibility for them selfs which they did not like.
She questioned the National Health Service and asked just what they doing and what they where spending money on. She made them cost operations and work out where the money went and on what. It was then found there were a lot staff involved in operations just as back ups in case they might be required.
This is the reason she had a large number of people that did not like her or her policies, she turned so much of Britain upside down and changes came under her that should have come along under many other governments but that were to weak to take these decisions

 

[BritinBritain]

There was a mass student revolt against Maggie, the students were being made to pay some thing towards public services and they did not like it one little bit. Maggie was there at the time she she was the one to blame with every thing that went wrong in a students life. The Miners did not like it as she had bested them for a change. Eddie Shah had broken the cosy printers monopoly on labour and cost when he brought in new print technology and broke the Fleet Street Unions.
The Dockers were fighting against the use of the big ship containers which they had no control over, and the run down of London Docks.
She stopped pouring money into Motor manufacturing so that the Unions could walk out at a drop of a hat.
She made many people take responsibility for them selfs which they did not like.

This is getting bloody silly. The bottom line is, she wasn't as popular as you make out, in fact she was hated with a passion by many people. As for the most popular PM's since Churchill, popular for whom? Certainly not the working people in Britain.
Thatcher along with hubby Denis and son Mark were involved in a lot of dodgy dealings.
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/archive/1991/06/thatcher199106?currentPage=5
Also in 1981, Denis and Mark Thatcher got embroiled in a controversial building contract in Oman. Mrs. Thatcher was making an official visit there during the same time that a British construction company, Cementation International, was bidding on a billion-dollar university complex. Mark, who was working as a consultant for Cementation, showed up as well. Mrs. Thatcher lobbied on behalf of the company, and after it won the contract, Mark reaped a sizable fee. For his part, Denis Thatcher was chairman of a company that had a 50 percent interest in a bid to subcontract to Cementation. After The Observer broke the story in 1984, Mrs. Thatcher and her government were criticized in Parliament for the striking conflict of interest. Later The Sunday Times revealed that Denis was a co-signatory on the bank account in which Mark’s fee was deposited.

These days, Denis, who spends one week out of four in the U.S., is in business with some heavily investigated characters. One of his major ventures—he serves as deputy chairman—is with Attwoods, a British waste-management concern. Municipal garbage contracts and landfills in high-growth areas like Florida are a lucrative business, and a substantial portion of Attwoods’ profit comes from an American subsidiary, Industrial Waste Services in Miami. When Attwoods acquired I.W.S. in 1984, it was owned by Jack R. Casagrande and Ralph Velocci and some of their relatives; as part of the sale, these relatives received Attwoods stock, and Casagrande and Velocci have joined Denis Thatcher on the Attwoods board. Casagrande and Velocci come from three generations involved in the garbage trade in New Jersey and New York, where another company Casagrande has an interest in was charged with price-fixing and illegal property-rights schemes. A 1986 report from Maurice Hinchey, chairman of the New York State Assembly Environmental Conservation Committee, stated that organized crime is “a dominating presence” in the state’s garbage industry.
“One of the great advantages for I.W.S. was to be subsumed under a British corporation which had the luster of the Thatcher name,” says Alan Block, a professor at Pennsylvania State University and the author of a book on organized crime’s ties to the waste industry. F.B.I. reports refer to I.W.S.’s business dealings with convicted mob associate Mel Cooper, now serving twenty-five years in prison for racketeering. Cooper ran a garbage-equipment leasing operation in New York that was alleged to be a front for loan-sharking operations connected to the Gambino, Genovese, and Colombo crime families.

While Margaret Thatcher was prime minister, unofficial Downing Street and Attwoods sources would reportedly dismiss any news accounts of the company’s activities by asking the rhetorical question “Do you think British intelligence would allow Denis Thatcher to take a job that could be linked to the Mafia?” Hinchey claims that Scotland Yard, at least, did inquire about Attwoods and I.W.S. “I’ve seen documents from British authorities,” he says. “They knew about these things and were frustrated about it.” Yet British authorities apparently did not contact others who could have aided them. Says Robert Waters, at the time an assistant state attorney in Florida’s Organized Crime and Public Corruption Unit, “I was the one conducting the bribery investigation, and nobody from the British government ever contacted me or any of the detectives.”

Then we get to darling Mark Thatcher. As the saying goes, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Thatcher
Thatcher is alleged by a Saudi dissident, Mohammed al Khilewi, as well as by former Labour MP Tam Dalyell, and The Guardian newspaper, to have received a multimillion-pound commission on the £20,000,000,000 Al Yamamah arms contract with Saudi Arabia, which his mother signed in 1985 as Prime Minister. According to The Guardian, "Sir Mark has always denied receiving this payment or exploiting his mother's connections in business dealings."
In 1998 South African authorities investigated his firm for running loan shark operations. A company owned by Sir Mark offered unofficial small loans to hundreds of police officers, military personnel and civil servants. When they defaulted on the loans they were pursued by debt collectors and charged 20% interest rates, according to the Star of Johannesburg.
Other widely reported Thatcher embarrassments include allegations of U.S. tax evasion (a criminal case was eventually dropped) and a racketeering case in Texas which was settled out of court. According to The Daily Telegraph of 26 August 2004, "In 1998, he was at the centre of a scandal after he lent huge sums of money at exorbitant interest rates to more than 900 local police officers and civil servants in Cape Town. He admitted lending the cash but insisted that he had done nothing wrong. He is also thought to have profited from contracts to supply aviation fuel in various African countries."
On 25 August 2004, Thatcher was arrested at home in Constantia, Cape Town, South Africa. He was charged later that day with contravening two sections of South Africa's "Foreign Military Assistance Act", which bans South African residents from taking part in any foreign military activity. The charges related to "possible funding and logistical assistance in relation to [an] attempted coup in Equatorial Guinea" organized by Thatcher's friend, Simon Mann. He was released on bail of 2 million rand and spent a period of time under house arrest, but was bailed to London to live with his widowed mother while his wife and children moved to the family's home in Dallas, Texas.
On 24 November 2004, the Cape Town High Court upheld a subpoena from the South African Justice Ministry that required him to answer under oath questions from Equatorial Guinean authorities regarding the alleged coup attempt. He was due to face questioning on 25 November 2004, regarding offences under the South African Foreign Military Assistance Act; however, these proceedings were later postponed until 8 April 2005. Ultimately, following a process of plea bargaining, Thatcher pleaded guilty to negligence in investing in an aircraft "without taking proper investigations into what it would be used for". Thatcher admitted in court that he had paid the money, but said he was under the impression it was going to be invested in an air ambulance service to help the impoverished of Africa. This explanation was not believed by the judge and he was fined three million rand (approximately $500,000) and received a four-year suspended jail sentence.
On 3 April 2005, Sir Mark, then living with his mother in London, announced that his family home will be in Europe after he was refused a residence visa to live in the United States as a result of his guilty plea in the Equatorial Guinea affair. His children, he stated, will be educated in the United States.[citation needed]
Under the headline "Mark Thatcher — undesirable in Monaco?" French newspaper Le Figaro reported on 20 December 2005:
"Margaret Thatcher's son, the former British prime minister's nefarious offspring, will not be installing himself in the principality of Monaco as he hoped." A spokesman for Prince Albert told Le Figaro that Sir Mark's residency card would not be renewed. "He has a temporary residency card valid for one year. It will not be renewed when it expires in the second half of 2006 and he will have to leave." The spokesman, Armand Deus, added: "I cannot say why it will not be renewed. But the Prince made things very clear during his investiture in July when he said that ethics will be at the centre of life in Monaco."
In Equatorial Guinea in June 2008, Simon Mann claimed during his trial testimony that Thatcher, now resident in Spain, "was not just an investor, he came completely on board and became a part of the management team" of the coup plot.

I don't know whom you are trying to convince about the attributes of Thatcher and Thatcher ism, because you will never convince me in a million years that she was as popular as you think she was.

I have no doubt you will find some excuse for her and her family. Don't waste your time, I have neither the time nor the patience. If you want to argue politics, go the political forum.

 

[LeEnfield]

Thatcher is the only PM in Britain to have a statue unveiled to them in Parliament while they were still alive, and that was carried out under the Labour Party.
Yes I agree that Mark Thatcher is a greasy little oink who has sailed to closed to wind to often. Dennis on the whole received very little criticism over the way he handled him self while Maggie was in power.

 

[BritinBritain]

Thatcher is the only PM in Britain to have a statue unveiled to them in Parliament while they were still alive, and that was carried out under the Labour Party.
Yes I agree that Mark Thatcher is a greasy little oink who has sailed to closed to wind to often. Dennis on the whole received very little criticism over the way he handled him self while Maggie was in power.

Nelson Mandela has a statue in Parliament Square, and he was a terrorist, the same man who refuses to denounce violence. I'm surprised there isn't a statue of Jerry Adams or Robert Mugabe. If you wish to extol the virtues of Mandela, then I will gladly give you many truths and facts regarding the man and his terrorist activities, including the murder of innocent women and children, I will gladly take it to the political forum.

Mark Thatchers activities were of the full knowledge and on many occasions, help of his mother. As I said, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

[Del Boy]

And your point is? Nelson Mandela has a statue in Parliament Square, and he was a terrorist. I'm surprised there isn't a statue of Jerry Adams. If you wish to extol the virtues of Mandela, then I will gladly give you many truths and facts regarding the man and his terrorist activities, including the murder of innocent women and children, I will gladly take it to the political forum.

Mark Thatchers activities were of the full knowledge and on many occasions, help of his mother. As I said, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

It seems to me that you are the one pushing the political issue from the start, getting your piece in and then complaining about getting responses. Yes, as Le says , Maggie upset many, but she remains in the position of being acclaimed as the best Prime Minister after Churchill; I said nothing about being close to him, simply miles closer than any other.
I am sorry that this does not fit your book, but that's life. As for going after her family, let me tell you that to this day Denis is held in high regard here; Mark Thatcher has never been liked.

You have the benefit of two sound British citizens here, I would advise you not to put your faith in the BBC slant. Personally, I don't care what you think on this issue, Le and I lived it; I respond only for the benefit of others who might swallow your stuff whole. If you want stop the flow, then the ball is in your court my friend. In this instance, if you denigrate Maggie, then expect a response.

 

[BritinBritain]

It seems to me that you are the one pushing the political issue from the start, getting your piece in and then complaining about getting responses.

At the beginning, I responded to someone who obviously doesn't know Thatcher. I however, welcome sensible dialogue and debate with anyone on any subject, the propaganda you are spouting regarding Thatcher, is very hard to swallow to say the least. My only complaint was, that this whole debate should have been taken to another forum.

Yes, as Le says , Maggie upset many, but she remains in the position of being acclaimed as the best Prime Minister after Churchill; I said nothing about being close to him, simply miles closer than any other. I am sorry that this does not fit your book, but that's life. As for going after her family, let me tell you that to this day Denis is held in high regard here; Mark Thatcher has been liked.

Le is damn right she upset many people, too many people, including her own government minsters. Whom acclaimed her to be the best PM since Churchill? Going after family? Denis held in high regard? Mark has been liked? You reckon? Why does Mark have a criminal record in South Africa, and why was he refused entry into the USA? I suggest that you do a little more research old chap or doesn't cold hard facts mean anything to you? If those cold hard facts upset or annoy you, thats your problem not mine.

You have the benefit of two sound British citizens here, I would advise you not to put your faith in the BBC slant. Personally, I don't care what you think on this issue, Le and I lived it;

BBC slant? I suggest you look again, much of my research regarding Mark Thatcher came from Wikipedia, unless Wikipedia is BBC propaganda lol. I too am a British Citizen, born and bred. I wouldn't call your rhetoric a benefit to anyone, as you obviously condone the antics of the Thatchers, and your attempts to justify them. Thankfully, not everyone is so blinkered. Your not the only ones who lived it, so did I and millions of others. I suppose two opinions out of 55 million British people is a clear indication of what the British think of Thatcher. lol. Of course you dont care what I think on this issue, because what I think doesnt agree with your views. My advice to you is, do a lot more in depth research.

I respond only for the benefit of others who might swallow your stuff whole. If you want stop the flow, then the ball is in your court my friend. In this instance, if you denigrate Maggie, then expect a response.

My stuff as you call it is actual research and personal experiences, not the extreme and biased propaganda I'm getting from you. Although in part your right, swallowing Thatcher is too much for anyone.

The only policies I agreed totally with Thatcher, was her stance on Europe and South Africa. No doubt those are two policies you didnt agree with. LOL

In my opinion which I no doubt beleive you will disagree with, a far better PM was Edward Heath, who sadly as history shows was brought down by the miners. I had no love for the excesses of the miners and other unions including my own union, TGWU and fully agree that they should have been reined in considerably.

An even better PM could have been the Labour leader John Smith, who during his maiden speech as leader tore into John Major like nothing I have ever seen before or since, an amazing orator. Even Edward Heath congratulated him on his superb speech. Sadly John Smith died of a heart attack.

Others can do their own research and draw their own conclusions, although I would suspect that they quite frankly can't be bothered.


If however, you wish to continue this ridiculous tirade, bring it on old chap, and yes, I fully expect a response. I cant wait lol

 

[Del Boy]

Just a hurried note in response to a quick browse of your post. I will follow up later. First - an error to be corrected; the sentence should have been 'Mark Thatcher has never been liked' - left out the word 'never.'

Apart from that, your post could not be more high-handed and wrong.

Every poll conducted here has put Maggie in the position quoted. Heath is thoroughly detested by the man in the street here, he is considered our very worst PM; a loser, full of bile and bitterness against the woman he could never match.

If he is a preferred choice of yours, your opinion is worthless on this subject, as your description of the views of Le and myself as extreme .

Maggie's record in elections shows the extent of her standing, she never lost and destroyed the opposition; the colleagues who plotted to remove her were eager for power and destroyed themselves and the party, at the polls.

And he-he, if you consider John Smith the greatest orator and John Major any challenge at all, you have never heard a great orator.

And, as for using Maggie's family to denigrate her, weak stuff; light-weight strategy. As far as Denis was concerned, the British were very happy with him.

Using your weak measure, how would the JFK and the Kennedy's stand in your book?

Once again, you fill your boots and then complain that others get involved - well, you are boring me too, but you've put it up to be shot at. More later.

 

[LeEnfield]

In Parliament Square it's self you have a statue to President Lincoln, and to Churchill but not one to Mandela.
By the way you haven't mentioned Carol thatcher her daughter, now I wonder what she did wrong ????

 

[Del Boy]

Right Le - Carol was my next point, one of the most liked and respected people in Britain. Wherever she goes, she is asked 'How's your Mum?'

Mark Thatcher is an irrelevance in this context - it is about the unquestionable integrity of Maggie, and the job she did in resurrecting Britain.

And as for our friend's comments re. Mandela - well, I reckon that just cost him the support of the 55 million British Maggie-haters he claimed.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1584218/Margaret-Thatcher-'would-win-election-today'.html

 

[BritinBritain]

Oh good, three posts to answer.

In Parliament Square it's self you have a statue to President Lincoln, and to Churchill but not one to Mandela.
By the way you haven't mentioned Carol thatcher her daughter, now I wonder what she did wrong ????

First of all, Mandela's statue in Parliament square. I suggest you check out, Unless of course someone pinched it. lol

http://www.southafrica.info/mandela/statue-310807.htm
Livingstone said the statue, placed among statues of other statesmen such as Winston Churchill, Abraham Lincoln and former South African statesman Jan Smuts

As for Carol Thatcher, I have no complaint about her whatsoever, as I am not aware of any dodgy dealings or abuses of power by her. Although I could be wrong.

Just a hurried note in response to a quick browse of your post. I will follow up later. First - an error to be corrected; the sentence should have been 'Mark Thatcher has never been liked' - left out the word 'never.'

Oh boy oh boy, you agree. lol

Apart from that, your post could not be more high-handed and wrong.'

High handed and wrong? According to whom, your opinions have been nothing but total and complete biased and blinkered rubbish

Every poll conducted here has put Maggie in the position quoted. Heath is thoroughly detested by the man in the street here, he is considered our very worst PM; a loser, full of bile and bitterness against the woman he could never match.

My observations were in fact the reverse of yours, most people I spoke to had an extreme dislike of Thatcher some to the extent of hatred, many liked Heath. Of course, according to you, they were wrong. The only man who could match Thatcher was Adolf Hitler, he destroyed the unions too. lol

If he is a preferred choice of yours, your opinion is worthless on this subject, as your description of the views of Le and myself as extreme .

Only worthless to you old chap, simply because I don't subscribe to your fawning and biased opinions. Something you obviously don't like, and expect others to fall in behind your extremely biased and tainted views.

Maggie's record in elections shows the extent of her standing, she never lost and destroyed the opposition; the colleagues who plotted to remove her were eager for power and destroyed themselves and the party, at the polls.

Oh I agree, she did destroy the opposition, until she was replaced by John Major, whom I have to admit, I had no time for either.

And he-he, if you consider John Smith the greatest orator and John Major any challenge at all, you have never heard a great orator.

I never said John Smith was the greatest orator, but simply a very good, excellent (cross out which doesn't apply) orator. He didn't only destroy John Major, but the rest of the cabinet, but yes I do agree it wouldn't take much to destroy Major. I often wonder what his speech would have been if your all time hero Maggie was PM.

And, as for using Maggie's family to denigrate her, weak stuff; light-weight strategy. As far as Denis was concerned, the British were very happy with him.

If you dismiss the Thatchers dodgy dealings as weak stuff, then quite frankly your opinions are worthless and without any merit whatsoever. If you or I had been involved in the sort of dealings carried out by the Thatchers we'd still be sitting in jail. Thatcher simply did not use her position of power, she abused it. I detest anyone who put their self interest above that of the country.

Using your weak measure, how would the JFK and the Kennedy's stand in your book?

I have no opinion of American presidents or politics. Their politics is their concern, not mine.

Once again, you fill your boots and then complain that others get involved - well, you are boring me too, but you've put it up to be shot at. More later.

Quite the reverse, I'm not complaining about anyone getting involved, more the merrier. In fact, I told you to bring it on. You began to bore me with your first load of clap-trap extolling the so called amazing virtues of Thatcher.

Right Le - Carol was my next point, one of the most liked and respected people in Britain. Wherever she goes, she is asked 'How's your Mum?'

Mark Thatcher is an irrelevance in this context - it is about the unquestionable integrity of Maggie, and the job she did in resurrecting Britain.

And as for our friend's comments re. Mandela - well, I reckon that just cost him the support of the 55 million British Maggie-haters he claimed.

Mark Thatcher is irrelevant? The Unquestionable integrity of Maggie? LOL Good God, you are so biased and blinkered its unbelievable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Thatcher
Thatcher is alleged by a Saudi dissident, Mohammed al Khilewi, as well as by former Labour MP Tam Dalyell, and The Guardian newspaper, to have received a multimillion-pound commission on the £20,000,000,000 Al Yamamah arms contract with Saudi Arabia, which his mother signed in 1985 as Prime Minister. According to The Guardian, "Sir Mark has always denied receiving this payment or exploiting his mother's connections in business dealings."

That just about blows your unquestionable integrity of Maggie right out of the water. I could probably dig up a lot more about her underhand dealings.

My comments regarding Nelson Mandela? What comments are you referring to, the ones that he was a terrorist who planted bombs, killing innocent women and children, and that he has never denounced violence? Is that what you are referring to? Thats tantamount to a statue of Gerry Adams being put up in Cape Town to celebrate the IRA bombings and the murders of innocents in Northern Ireland and the British mainland. If you wish to be enlightened as to Nelson Mandela and the ANC I will gladly do so.

Oh I don't think there are 55 million Thatcher haters. In fact we have two of her biggest fans right here. lol

As for the site regarding Thatcher, even Philip Johnston admits, Her greatest failure, according to 45 per cent of those questioned, was her ill-fated introduction of the Poll Tax in 1990, a decision that precipitated her downfall.

The return of mass unemployment in the mid-1980s after the painful restructuring of British industry and "undermining the idea of public service" are also regarded as serious failures. One in five felt she had divided the nation and presided over an era of "greed".


Oh boy, she was a fantastic PM. lol

I await your responses, (even though they are biased in the extreme) with baited breath lol

 

[perseus]

Yes Thatcher was either loved or hated, the only good thing I can say about her is that she stuck to what she believed rather than constantly turned colour as the political tide turned.

Many economists are now pointing to her policies, particularily deregulation, that have led to the present crisis. Politicians are starting to read Keynes and Marx again!

 

[BritinBritain]

Yes Thatcher was either loved or hated, the only good thing I can say about her is that she stuck to what she believed rather than constantly turned colour as the political tide turned.

Even when she was blatantly wrong, she ignored all advice and simply carried on.

Many economists are now pointing to her policies, particularily deregulation, that have led to the present crisis.

I couldnt agree more

 

[LeEnfield]

BritinAfrica...............Regarding the statue of Mandela in Parliament square.......I stand corrected.....................Thats the problem of no longer working there

 

[BritinBritain]

BritinAfrica...............Regarding the statue of Mandela in Parliament square.......I stand corrected.....................Thats the problem of no longer working there

No problem Le, I appreciate your correction.